Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Cò thusa? / Introduce yourself
Raghnaid NicGaraidh
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Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Raghnaid NicGaraidh » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:19 pm

Halò! ‘S mise Raghnaid NicGaraidh. Tha mi as Astràilia-a-Deas agus tha mi ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig bho trì seachdainean. Tha mi ag ionnsachadh aig an clas Gàidhlig ag an Rèidio Albannach (5-EBI FM) ann Di-màirt madainn. Tha sinn a’ coimhead “Speaking Our Language” agus tha sinn a comm-labhair ann an clas, agus tha mi a’ leugheadh “Gàidhlig Troimh Chòmhradh” aig an taigh.

Hello! My name is Rachel Hay. I’m seventeen and I live in South Australia. I’ve been learning Gaelic only three weeks. I’m learning it mostly at the Scottish Gaelic classes held at Scottish Radio (part of the local Ethnic Radio station, 5-EBI FM) on Tuesday mornings. We’re watching “Speaking Our Language” and then conversing for a bit during the classes, and I’m reading through “Gaelic Through Conversation” at home. The others in the class are all either native speakers or have been learning for a really long time.

Please correct my Gàidhlig to help me improve, but please tell me how I went wrong and how to fix it. It’d rather find out the grammar behind what I’m doing wrong than just learn by rote what is right.

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Thrissel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:59 pm

Halò a Raghnaid, fàilte dhan Fhòram!

as Astràilia-a-Deas -> à Astràilia-a-Deas - às is only used before an article, eg às an taigh - from the house
aig an clas -> aig a' chlas - there are too many rules related to this to be troubled about it after only three weeks (NB: you wrote aig an taigh correctly), you'll learn them step by step
ann Di-màirt madainn -> madainn Dimàirt - "in" is ann an, but with the name of a day of the week you don't use any preposition, so "on Monday evening" is simply feasgar Diluain etc

I admit I'm not sure about tha mi ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig bho trì seachdainean, to me this looks as implying that you were learning it since you were three weeks old, but I may be wrong. Personally I would just say tha mi ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig trì seachdainean.

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby GunChleoc » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 pm

tha mi ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig trì seachdainean. or:
tha mi ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig (bh)o chionn trì seachdainean.

Fàilte chridheil ort! :smeid:
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby faoileag » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:06 pm

Halò agus fàilte ort, a Raghnaid!
:D
Tha sinn glè thoilichte gu bheil thu air an fhòram a-nis! Tha mòran Gàidhlig agad mar-thà!
Tha Astràilianach eile an seo cuideachd - Alasdair Bochd.

Hello and welcome! We're very happy that you're on the forum now. You have a lot of Gaelic already!
There is another Australian here too: Alasdair Bochd.

Raghnaid NicGaraidh
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Raghnaid NicGaraidh » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:00 am

Tapadh leibh! Thank you for welcoming me and for correcting what I'd said. I didn't make as many mistakes as I thought I had!

Thrissel - the only reason I got "aig an taigh" correct was because of that creepy little soap opera thing with the MacLeòid family on "Speaking Our Language". That's called "Aig an Taigh".

To be honest, it took me a very long time to compose that introduction, and I used a dictionary a lot. I know a bunch of basic phrases, like I can greet people and introduce myself and my family and talk about the weather, but that's about it. "Gàidhlig Troimh Chòmhradh" has helped me a lot with working out how to put things together. I really like the "verbal nouns" things they keep talking about (personally I would call it a 'present continuous' tense, though, but that could just be my background in French and Spanish coming out), and I like how the verbs don't really conjugate that much ('tha' everyone, yay!).

GunChleoc - thank you for the link you gave me on the other thread. I looked at it but it's really confusing me with the whole German/Gaelic thing. I'm used to learning Gaelic from English, so to switch over and do it from German is complicated.

I have a question, if anyone can answer it. Does my name change when I'm being addressed? We were trying to work it out in class this morning, because some people thought it should and others thought it shouldn't. But it makes sense that it should, because Jim is called Seumas but addressed as "a Sheumas" and Des is addressed as "a Dhes", and Janet is Seònaid but addressed somehow differently that I haven't seen written. Same with Margo, she's "Mairead" but "a Mhairead". But not with Ian, he's always just Ian. So do I get an 'h', too, or not?

Anyway, thanks again for welcoming me and correcting me. I'd write more in Gaelic but I don't have enough words or grammar to talk about anything other than the weather.

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby GunChleoc » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:09 am

No, you don't get an h with l, n, r, sg, sm, sp, or st. all other consonants get one, vowels don't. What the h does is to signal that the consonant changes to a "lenited" consonant, so think of it as a marker rather than a letter on its own. If you address a male, the last consonant also changes to a "slender" consonant, marked by an i: Seumas -> a Sheumais. Iain and Des already has a slender consonant at the end, so it stays as it is.

When I started out, it took me 15 minutes to say "Tha i brèagha an-diugh", and I kept looking everything up again and again. Gaelic is the first language (except for German :P) that I learned without cramming vocabulary. That's the advantage of a messageboard, you can take as much time constructing a sentence as you want :)
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby AlasdairBochd » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:06 pm

Fàilte dhan fhòram, a Raghnaid,
Tha mi a'fuireach ann an Wollongong, air deas bho Sydney. Seo ceangal airson Comann Gàidhlig Astràilia. http://www.ozgaelic.org/

Welcome to the forum, Raghnaid,
I live in Wollongong, south of Sydney. Here is a link to Comann Gàidhlig Astràilia http://www.ozgaelic.org/

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Thrissel
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Thrissel » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:49 pm

Raghnaid NicGaraidh wrote:I have a question, if anyone can answer it. Does my name change when I'm being addressed? We were trying to work it out in class this morning, because some people thought it should and others thought it shouldn't. But it makes sense that it should, because Jim is called Seumas but addressed as "a Sheumas" and Des is addressed as "a Dhes", and Janet is Seònaid but addressed somehow differently that I haven't seen written. Same with Margo, she's "Mairead" but "a Mhairead". But not with Ian, he's always just Ian. So do I get an 'h', too, or not?


GunChleoc already explained that you don't get an "h", but perhaps I should add that the initial R is lenited in the vocative like most other consonants, but the change happens only in pronunciation and isn't reflected in writing. So if you're ready to find out about the Gaelic 3 R's, have a look here:
http://akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Li ... t_there.21

Raghnaid NicGaraidh
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Raghnaid NicGaraidh » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:30 pm

Madainn mhath do h-uile daoine,
(Hello everyone),

I have a problem. I'm not sure where else to put it, so here goes.

I feel like I've betrayed Gàidhlig. This is because I finally got fed up with the other people in my class refusing to speak Gàidhlig ad lib and not being able to converse at all, so last night I went for the first time to the Irish club for the lesson there. (Short of going to Sydney, which is 2-3 days' drive away, Irish is the next best thing). And even though I've come to the conclusion that I really don't like Irish, I've decided to keep going because the class was so good. (They use modern European-standard books based on the CEFRL system, have both conversation time and grammar lessons, and to be honest, I learnt more in that one lesson pretty much than I've done in six months of Gàidhlig class, practice at home excepted).

And now I feel really bad and conflicted, because I've decided to go to Irish classes. I'll keep going to Gàidhlig, of course, but even so...

Last night was very confusing. I've watched some Irish-language programmes on YouTube, mostly "No Béarla", and found I can understand a fair amount (about 30-40%). I didn't think it was too dissimilar. Then last night, I could barely understand a thing. All the vowels were wrong. (The teacher's from Cork - could this make such a difference? I know that's the opposite end of the dialect continuum.) And the verbs conjugate! I don't know what to do with a conjugating Gaelic verb. He (the teacher) asked me at the beginning of the lesson if I was going to use Gàidhlig sounds in the lesson - to which I replied that I didn't know. It's so different I don't think I'll be able to get away with it, which makes it worse. Obviously I'll be using Gàidhlig at first, as that's what I know and last night was the first time I've ever tried to speak Irish, but it's sure to rub off on me eventually.

There are other differences, too. Apparently, in Irish, you can't say "Is toigh leam..." for "I like..." I tried it and got weird looks. (Apparently only in some northern dialects do you say "Is doigh liom..." And "tapadh leat/leibh" is "go raibh maith agat/agaibh". And "tha mi doolich" (which I still don't know how to spell) is "tá brón orm".

So, anyway, what do you think? Am I being a horrible person and betraying Gàidhlig? Will I ever be able to speak either language properly like this?

Tapadh leibh às a' leughadh mo sgeulachd.
le Raghnaid.

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Seonaidh
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Seonaidh » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:54 pm

O, Raghnaid, you indescribable traitour you! Seriously, don't feel bad about it. After all, you do not have the luxury that a good many of us do, i.e. of living in Scotland. Do what you can. And, indeed, there are vague similarities between Gaelic and Irish - as I found out at a multi-lingual conference this summer. We had various folk who spoke in English - this I found comprehensible. Just as well, because there were no tr*nsl*t**n facilities on for English. Then a few folk spoke in Welsh, which I also found comprehensible, so didn't bother with the available tr*nsl*t**n facilities. And, as we were in Skye, a few folk spoke in Gaelic - also comprehensible, so I didn't bother with the available tr*nsl*t**n facilities. And some folk spoke in Irish, which I didn't know at the time (have subsequently started learning it). What I found is that I could make out a fair bit of what they were saying as, indeed, there are similarities with Gaelic, and my guesses at what the other bits were were largely confirmed by the tr*nsl*t**n facility (charming woman called Deirdre). But then, I do know rather a lot of Gaelic and a bit about dialectal variations - and many of the Irish speakers were actually from Ulster (Tír Chonaill esp., also Béal Feirsde), where the Irish tends to be a bit more like Gaelic anyway.

Cork Irish - Munster dialect - tends to be a thing unto itself: generalising, it is more "conservative" than other dialects, so you're more likely to find strict adherence to verbal inflexions etc. there. As for "How do you do?" or "How are you?", the usual Ulster dialect is something like "Cad é mar atá tú?", which bears a passing resemblance to "Ciamar a tha thu?" in Gaelic. In Munster, however, it's usually something like "Conas atá tú?", while in Connaught dialect - often regarded as the "standard" because of its central position - it's generally "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?", which is maybe a bit more like "Dè do chor?" in Gaelic.

Considering the number of people who are successfully raised bilingually (or even more languages) in the world, I don't think there's any great danger in trying to do two at once, as it were.

"Tha mi duilich" is what you're l00king for. You'll be aware of the broad-broad and slender-slender rules, no doubt (which would technically make the combination "oli" or "uli" inadmissible): the L is a narrow one, so the U is followed by an I. If it was a wide one, you'd probably be looking at a spelling like "dulaich". That broad-boad, slender-slender rule also applies in Irish, incidentally. But not in Manx (capital city Doolish).

Slán go fóill

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby GunChleoc » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:42 pm

What you could try to do is learn Gaelige first, and when you've become good at it, try Gàidhlig again. Trying to learn both at once will be pretty confusing, especially because the languages are similar.

Whatever you do, your heart should be in it :D
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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Raghnaid NicGaraidh » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:15 am

To Seonaidh and GunChleoc,

Thank-you for your replies.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I can learn both, provided that I can convince my brain they're actually two different languages. (I was previously treating them as being dialects, like English and American or whatever). That shouldn't be too hard if I treat them separately - I've learnt two languages simultaneously before (German and French); I even did three at the same time for a year, but my Spanish was significantly behind the other two (and I kept applying French rules to it, which was bad). Maybe it's just as well the teacher's from Cork, because that makes it seem more different than it would in another dialect.

To be honest, the teacher's pretty accepting, although he possibly thinks I know more Gaelic than I actually do. He's also spent a little time in Scotland and with Gaelic himself, so he knows a little and when I make a mistake understand where it's coming from. (Some of the other students, now, they're another story...)

Anyway, the Irish classes only run during school time, so they'll be finishing soon and I can focus just on Gaelic. I've put my name down for the Sabhal Mòr Ostaig correspondence course, but got in about a week too late for the beginning of their academic year and have to wait until February (Being in a different hemisphere meant it didn't occur to me that if I wanted to start the course roughly when the Year 12's academic year is winding to a close, I'd have to apply in August or September. We've been in swot-vac for three or four weeks now, and most of my exams were over in the first week.) I'm still mostly focussing on Gaelic anyway, but I imagine I'll pick up the Irish eventually, and it's still fun to go along. (Particularly as I can toddle upstairs with my fiddle afterwards and join in music night...)

Anything I do is going to be a little disjointed anyway - with all the random stuff that goes into finish high school happening over the next month or so, end-and-beginning-of-year stuff after that, and then halfway through next year I'm packing off to America for a bit to work at a summer camp (which is, of course, in the middle of our academic year - thank goodness for gap years, although it leaves me with not much to do for the rest of the year; hence the SMO course and possibly a TESOL short course). I do hope to get over to somewhere a little more Gaelic-speaking sometime next year, whether it be Scotland or more likely Nova Scotia... even Sydney (Australia) would be a vast improvement...

Anyway, thanks again for the replies and comments,
from Raghnaid/Rachel.

(PS - I love your picture, Seonaidh! Were you named after him?)

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby akerbeltz » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:34 am

as Astràilia-a-Deas -> à Astràilia-a-Deas - às is only used before an article, eg às an taigh - from the house


Minor (late) footnote. Às is unusual, historically it was one of the few prepositions with an -s in the root so the pattern (up until not too long ago and in some places it still is) was
às achadh/taigh
às an achadh/taigh


But it was eventually lost through re-analysis i.e. people thinking hang on, all the other -s prepositions (leis, ris, gus) loose the -s without the definite article so I must be saying it wrong. So às Astràilia a Deas is a little archaic/conservative but not wrong per se.

Regarding the Irish/Gaelic thing... the closer to Donegal you get, the more Irish starts sounding like Gaelic. Having a Munster teacher is a stroke of bad fortune in that sense :?

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Raghnaid NicGaraidh » Thu May 14, 2015 7:54 am

Halòòò! Ciamar a tha sibh uile a-nis!

Uill, ‘s e dhà bliadhnachan a thàinig mi dham fòram seo, agus tha mise a’ smaoineachadh gu bheil mi a’ fàs nas fheàrr air Ghàidhlig gu cinnteach! Rinn mi an Cùrsa Inntrigidh le Sabhal Mòr Ostaig agus tha mi a’ dèanamh am final assessment a-nis. Cha deach mi dhan Clàs Gaeilge a-rithist… bleurgh. Cha d’ thoil leam e agus dh’ionnsaich mi mòran le SMO.

Ò, chaidh mi dhan Sgoil-Ghàidhlig Nàiseanta anns am Meall Bùirn an-uiridh cuideachd! Bha an sgoil glè shnog agus bha toil leam a bhith a’ bruidhinn Gàidhlig le daoine eile. Tha mi an dòchas gun thèid mi dhan sgoil a-rithist am-bliadhn’.

Uill, sin e a-nis. Tìoraidh a-rithist!

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Re: Halò as Astràilia-a-Deas/ Hello from South Australia!

Unread postby Teddie » Sat May 16, 2015 2:28 pm

Fàilte air ais, a Raghnaid!

Tha an Gàidhlig agad glè mhath! 'S nas fhearr na Gàidhlig agam co-dhiù!

Tha mi a' smaoinicheadh gum nì mi an Cùrsa Inntrigidh bliadhna-seo nuair thèid mi gu Newport an t-Sultain. A mhol thu e?

Welcome back!

Your Gaidhlig is very good, better than mine anyway! Though I am pleased with myself that I was able to understand you without 'tr*nsl*t*ng' your post.

I am thinking of doing an Cùrsa Inntrigidh this year when I move down to Newport in September (No Gaelic classes in Wales, unfortunately!) Would you recommend it?

I expect alot of mistakes in my Gaelic... please be kind! :p
Please check my Gaelic for mistakes :)


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