Dative or prepositional case

Kate McLaren · Unread post by **Kate McLaren** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:17 pm

Apologies, I'm a beginner, and I just can't get my head round the dative case. If I understand correctly, all prepositions take that case. I can't find (I'm sure there is one somewhere) a straightforward Gaelic grammar where you can look stuff up. Could someone tell me how to say Donald has fair hair ('S e falt ban a th'air Domhnaill??? or Dhomhnaill? and the same with, say, Seonag and Morag? I think proper nouns (names for example) behave as if they had an article, although they don't, which is why they don't decline the same way as ordinary nouns...is that right?

I am trying to do an exercise (not an assignment which will be marked, don't worry, I'm not cheating) and my head is birling.

Many thanks.

vb99 · Unread post by **vb99** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:07 pm

Hi - I'm a beginner myself. To your question, you could try Scottish Gaelic in 12 Weeks (O Maolalaigh, 2008) - Lesson 6, Sections 46 and 47 (page67 in my copy) on "The Prepositional Case," followed by using the index under "prepositional (dative) case" and "prepositions" for additional entries on more specific topics. Hope this provides some new information for you. Best wishes. Valerie

Unread post by **faoileag** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:02 am

For grammar, some useful online sources are :

akerbeltz:

http://www.akerbeltz.org/index.php?titl ... %C3%A0mair

TAIC:

http://taic.me.uk/

For your partucular question about Dative and proper names, see akerbeltz here:
Click on Masc and then Fem nouns, and then the subdivision Proper nouns in each gender.

http://www.akerbeltz.org/index.php?titl ... ocative%3F

Basically, in Dative masculine names don't change (an taigh aig Dòmhnall); in feminine names, slenderise (an taigh aig Moraig)

rìona · Unread post by **rìona** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:00 am

There's a reference grammar available as a (free!) pdf download here: https://www.academia.edu/2488427/Scotti ... nd_Edition_
Akerbeltz (both the website and his book, Blas na Gàidhlig), taic, and Scottish Gaelic in 12 Weeks are also resources that I can endorse.

The simplest way to say "Domhnall has red hair" is "Tha falt ruadh air Dòmhnall". You can also say "'S e falt ruadh a tha air Dòmhnall" (lit. "it's red hair that Domhnall has" but the emphasis is on the hair color; you might be contradicting someone who said that Domhnall was dorcha. If you speak a Romance language, fronting works the same way.

Gun soirbhich leibh! (Good luck everyone!)

Unread post by **akerbeltz** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:29 am

Basically, in Dative masculine names don't change (an taigh aig Dòmhnall); in feminine names, slenderise (an taigh aig Moraig)

What he said. But the lenition caused by prepositions aside (taigh > fo bhròg / air a' bhròg), the dative should not be cause for lost sleep at this stage. It has virtually gone from spoken Gaelic and frankly, if you say things like "fon bhròig" most native speakers will put you down as a smartarse

Some claim they use it but when you actually check, they don't, they just feel it "ought to be used by other folk"!

It remains in certain fixed phrases ("am broinn" for example) and in really formal speech (proverbs, speeches to parliament, that kind of thing) but other than that, park it for much later.

Unread post by **GunChleoc** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:06 pm

And most important of all - don't apologize! We were all beginners once, and this sort of question is what this forum was created for.

And don't forget to practice what you're learning, e.g. in the bilingual section