còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
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poor_mouse
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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby poor_mouse » Thu May 17, 2018 8:36 am

Dwelly wrote:Cóignear bhan, five women

Am Faclair Beag wrote:cóignear /koːgʲNʲər/
fir. gin. -eir, iol. -an
five (people; followed by genitive plural)
...
dithist de dhaoine, triùir de dhaoine, ceathrar de dhaoine, cóignear de dhaoine, sianar de dhaoine, seachdnar de dhaoine, ochdnar de dhaoine, naoinear de dhaoine, deichnear de dhaoine
two people, three people, four people, five people, six people, seven people, eight people, nine people, ten people

I think the form 'de dhaoine' is of dative plural?


Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby GunChleoc » Thu May 17, 2018 10:19 am

Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby poor_mouse » Thu May 17, 2018 1:00 pm

Chan eil "dithist de dhaoine" amsaa ann...
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby akerbeltz » Thu May 17, 2018 1:33 pm

The dhaoine in dithis de dhaoine is nominative plural, if it was dative plural, it would have to end in -(a)ibh.

Chan eil "dithist de dhaoine" amsaa ann...

Of course it exists. Usually though, it will end up getting translated as "two of..." for example "dithis de mhic Chaluim", two of Calum's sons but putting that into a dictionary entry is tricky.

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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby poor_mouse » Thu May 17, 2018 1:56 pm

Mòran taing!

So, "de" goes with nominative; a thought that with dative.
And is "aig daoinibh" a correct form for dative plural?
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby akerbeltz » Thu May 17, 2018 3:00 pm

Nobody uses the dative plural -(a)ibh anymore except for a) poetic language b) frozen forms.

Simple prepositions are notionally followed by the dative but except for formal language where feminine singular nouns slenderise (bròg > air bròig), the effects of the definite article aside, they are followed by the nominative. I mean, you could look at tha cuileag air a' bhròg and say that notionally bhròg is a dative because it follows air but really that's splitting hairs because it's the same as the nominative. The only thing that really changes is the definite article which is by default the leniting article after a simple preposition i.e.
am¹ balach a'² chaileag
air a'² bhalach air a'² chaileag

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còignear: genitive plural or dative?

Unread postby poor_mouse » Thu May 17, 2018 7:36 pm

Mòran taing a-rithist!
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd