Facal-toisich anns a Gàidhlig/Introduction in Gaelic

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GunChleoc
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Facal-toisich anns a Gàidhlig/Introduction in Gaelic

Unread postby GunChleoc » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:35 pm

Cuideachd, is toigh leam cànanan ionnsachadh, agus tha Beurla, Spàinnis/Spàinntis, Fraingis, Gearamailtis, Gàidhlig agus Seapanais agam a-nis. Thòisich m' uidh ann an ionnsachadh chànanan nuair a bha mi a' siubhal. Tha mi an dòchas gum bi mi ag ionnsachadh tuilleadh chànanan anns an àm ri teachd cuideachd. Thòisich mi an làrach-lìn agus am bloga agam a los a/a chum a bhith a' cuideachadh agus a' brosnachadh càch ach an ionnsaich iad cànanan cuideachd. Tha mi an dòchas gun còrd e ribh.

Cuideachd has no sràc on the i - try to use a spell checker? http://www.igaidhlig.net/en/category/spellchecking/

Once we're done with this paragraph, you could go over your first post again and edit it with what you're learned. Then we'll move on to the next paragraph.
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Unread postby Níall Beag » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:15 pm

meur-chlàr vs clàr-iuchrach
The former is traditional Gaelic, and the latter is a translationism from English. It's a little silly as iuchraichean open doors and you can't open doors with a piano!! :lol: "meur-chlàr" is a better bet.

ceòladair vs. neach-ciùil
"Ceòladair" seems to be a neologism modelled superficially on "seòladair". But a seòladair is a sailor and there's no such thing as a musicor, so the neologous form isn't great really. I stick with neach-ciùil myself, and it seems to be more common anyway.

As for "dèan", well, in Modern English we rarely "err", but we often "make mistakes". In Gaelic this goes further, and here are some things that we can only do/make -- e.g. "dèanamh sùgradh" - "making a flirting" -- and there other things we can be Xing or doing an Xing. "Doing singing" might seem a bit odd in English, but there's a lot of doing in Gaelic.

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GunChleoc
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Unread postby GunChleoc » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:13 pm

Níall Beag wrote:But a seòladair is a sailor and there's no such thing as a musicor, so the neologous form isn't great really.

Why should we care that English chose -ian for people making music rather than -or? If you do an English to Gaelic suffix search for %cian on AFB, you get a wild mix of -(ad)air, -(a)iche and neach-, just as expected.

Níall Beag wrote:I stick with neach-ciùil myself, and it seems to be more common anyway.

It being more common is a valid argument, and the votes on the maps so far support it.
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Unread postby Níall Beag » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:06 pm

GunChleoc wrote:Source of the post
Níall Beag wrote:But a seòladair is a sailor and there's no such thing as a musicor, so the neologous form isn't great really.

Why should we care that English chose -ian for people making music rather than -or? If you do an English to Gaelic suffix search for %cian on AFB, you get a wild mix of -(ad)air, -(a)iche and neach-, just as expected.

I was really talking about word-class, not about tr*nsl*t**n, and was using the English derivation as an analogy.

Music (noun) + -ian = musician
Sing (verb) + -er = singer

Now these word classes coincide with the Gaelic:
neach + ceòl (noun) = neach-ciùil
seinn (verb) + adair = seinneadair

I suppose I could have demonstrated the linguistic point with a completely unrelated example -- for example pointing out that a train driver (verb-derived form) is also called an engineer (noun-derived form) rather than an *enginer (impossible).

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Unread postby Níall Beag » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:14 pm

...except I've just now realised that there exist saigheadairean and boghadairean and bows and arrows are nouns only.

Hmmm.... I think I'd better think it out again....

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Unread postby Polygot2017 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:24 pm

GunChleoc wrote:Source of the post Cuideachd, is toigh leam cànanan ionnsachadh, agus tha Beurla, Spàinnis/Spàinntis, Fraingis, Gearamailtis, Gàidhlig agus Seapanais agam a-nis. Thòisich m' uidh ann an ionnsachadh chànanan nuair a bha mi a' siubhal. Tha mi an dòchas gum bi mi ag ionnsachadh tuilleadh chànanan anns an àm ri teachd cuideachd. Thòisich mi an làrach-lìn agus am bloga agam a los a/a chum a bhith a' cuideachadh agus a' brosnachadh càch ach an ionnsaich iad cànanan cuideachd. Tha mi an dòchas gun còrd e ribh.

Cuideachd has no sràc on the i - try to use a spell checker? http://www.igaidhlig.net/en/category/spellchecking/

Once we're done with this paragraph, you could go over your first post again and edit it with what you're learned. Then we'll move on to the next paragraph.


Mòran taing! Sorry it's taken me a while to reply. Bha mi trang o chionn ghoirid. Ciamar a chanas mi 'thanks for your help' anns a Gàidhlig?

And now onto some questions about your corrections:

1) I noticed you changed the first bit to 'is toigh leam cànanan ionnsachadh' with the 2nd verb at the end. So whenever 'is toigh leam' ('I like') in used with another verb in Gaelic, e.g. 'I like learning...', etc, am I correct in thinking that the second verb has to go at the end of the sentence/clause (unlike in English)? Is this a general rule for all verbs that follow 'is toigh leam'?

2) I've seen the plural of 'cànan' as both 'cànanain' and 'cànanan' in the dictionaries, depending upon the context, e.g.on it's own it's listed as 'cànanain' but when saying 'more languages' it seems to be 'tuilleadh chànanan'. Does it really matter which version is used, or are both plural forms correct in any context?

3) For the sentence 'I have been to many different places in the world, and my inspiration for learning languages started when I was travelling', is it best just to simplify it to the way you've put it, i.e. 'Thòisich m' uidh ann an ionnsachadh chànanan nuair a bha mi a' siubhal' ?

4) In the sentence, 'Thòisich mi an làrach-lìn agus am bloga agam', does the 'agam' make it mean 'my blog' or 'the blog I have'. I've seen 'agam' used for 'I have' etc, but I think I recall it also means 'my' in some contexts too? But I've also seen my as 'mo' too, so would 'mo bloga' be interchangeable with 'bloga agam' here?

5) I noticed you replaced 'neachluchd/pearsachan' with 'càch ach' for 'people'. So are 'neachluchd/pearsachan' simply incorrect in this context, and also in the dictionary 'càch' seems to tr*nsl*t* to 'the others' or 'the rest'. So is that used for 'people' in this context? I think you can also say 'duine/daoine' for 'person/people' too if I'm correct?

6) 'Tha mi an dòchas gun còrd e ribh' - does this literally mean 'I hope that you enjoy it' rather than 'I hope that you like it'? They're obviously very similar in meaning anyway so it wouldn't make much difference I guess.

As for updating my original post with the corrections, it seems that it doesn't give me the option to edit it, so perhaps after a certain amount of time that option expires? Perhaps the mods would be so kind as to make the edits, if not it's not the end of the world as I can still follow everything ok. I'll check out that spell checker also.

Also, on a side note, I realised my username is misspelled - it should be 'Polyglot2017', not 'Polygot2017'. Not sure how that happened, but is there any way that can be changed without losing the posts I've written here? If not, again it's no big deal.

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Facal-toisich anns a Gàidhlig/Introduction in Gaelic

Unread postby faoileag » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:03 pm

Point 1 is everyone's favourite, Inversion.
We've loads of threads on it here. (Do a search.) Here's one simple, short one:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2929&p=21506&hilit=inversion#p21506

Point 2:
Plural of cànan can be cànanan OR cànain. (Remember how endings are given in dictionaries!)
Genitive plurals in Gaelic have to end with a broad vowel, so the cànanan version is used for that (or occasionally the singular form is used instead). Indefinite gen plurals also lenite. Hence tuilleadh chànanan. =more of languages.

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Unread postby faoileag » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:12 pm

Point 3:
Yes.
Think simple - you're a learner. And simple is often better in your own language too. :priob:

Point 4:
agam doesn't mean either my or have. It means "at me". It is put into service to express possession, which it does neatly in either context.
Tha blog agam - a blog is at me.
An toil leat am blog agam? Do you like the blog at me?

Avoid over-using "mo" - restricted use in Gaelic.

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Unread postby faoileag » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:25 pm

Point 5:
Where did you get neachluchd? :mc:
neach (singular) = a person.
luchd (collective n.) is used as its plural.
Both are most often used as part of a compound noun, eg neach-teagaisg (teacher), luchd-turais (tourists).

pearsa, pearsachan - more a figure, a personality, than a neutral word for a person.

càch - yes, the rest, the others, other people. Do you know the French expression "pour encourager les autres"? That's roughly the sense in your paragraph.

daoine is also standard for people - very middle of the road, basic

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Unread postby faoileag » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:31 pm

Point 6:

còrd ri - to please, to agree with, suit.
So Literally, :priob: = I hope it will be pleasing to you / be agreeable to you.

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Unread postby faoileag » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:33 pm

Why not simply copy and paste your text and write in the corrections (good practice), instead of trying to edit or asking others to?
it's actually good to see the original too, and compare the changes, side by side.

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Unread postby faoileag » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:42 pm

And finally for today, as a thank you for getting all this free private tuition on here for all these weeks :D , may I (speaking as myself and not with my mod hat on) be cheeky and suggest that you make a Christmas donation to the most relevant worthy cause, namely, Am Faclair Beag? :flur:

http://www.faclair.com/donate.html

In fact maybe we all could.... :moladh:

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Unread postby akerbeltz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:01 pm

Tapadh leat a charaid, tha sin ro choibhneil :) I'd be ok if you bought a t-shirt (or hoodie since it's baltic) from my new shop too. Same pocket and you get something you can show off :priob:

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Unread postby Níall Beag » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:55 pm

Polygot2017 wrote:1) I noticed you changed the first bit to 'is toigh leam cànanan ionnsachadh' with the 2nd verb at the end. So whenever 'is toigh leam' ('I like') in used with another verb in Gaelic, e.g. 'I like learning...', etc, am I correct in thinking that the second verb has to go at the end of the sentence/clause (unlike in English)? Is this a general rule for all verbs that follow 'is toigh leam'?


This is a little quirk in Gaelic. Basically, when you are using the progressive aspect (someone is/was/would be/etc doing something) then we have tha mi ag ionnasachadh Gàidhlig or whatever. But when we're not saying that someone is/was/would be doing something, it's a little different. So for instance, if in English you can switch the present participle with a to-infinitive, then you're going to get the other form because it's no not "be doing".

"I like learning" can almost always be swapped with "I like to learn", for instance.

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Unread postby Polygot2017 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:43 pm

faoileag wrote:Source of the post Point 5:
Where did you get neachluchd? :mc:
neach (singular) = a person.
luchd (collective n.) is used as its plural.[/post]


On the dictionary on learngaelic.net it lists person as 'neach', and 'luchd' as the plural so I probably got confused thinking 'neachluchd' was the plural form of person, meaning 'people'.

faoileag wrote:càch - yes, the rest, the others, other people. Do you know the French expression "pour encourager les autres"? That's roughly the sense in your paragraph.


Yes of course, makes sense.

Thanks for the rest of your help (and everyone else's). I will consider giving a donation or buying a t-shirt or hoodie too.


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