Pride and Prejudice

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poor_mouse
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Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:08 am

Seadh, 's e janeite a tha anam! Agus seo an obair taighe agam sa Ghàidhlig: feuchaidh mi mas urrainn dhomh abairtean sam bith eadar-theangachadh den Pride and Prejudice...

Yeah, I'm a janeite! And this is my homework: I'll see if I manage to tr*nsl*t* any phrases from Pride and Prejudice...

Seo a' chiad chuid:
This is the first portion:

1. ’S e an rud aithnichte a tha ann gum feum am fear na aonar (singilte?) aig a bheil sealbh mòr bean ag iarraidh.
no: ... gu bheil air an duine na aonar aig a bheil sealbh mòr ri bean ag iarraidh.
1. It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

2. Ge b’ e beagan fhios a tha aig daoine mu dheidhinn nan faireachdainnean ’s nan beachdan aigesan nuair a tha e a’ tighinn dhan nàbaidheachd a’ chiad uair, tha an rud seo cho suidhichte ann an inntinnean nan teaghlaichean den sgìre seo ’s a tha iad ga bheachdachadh mar cobhartach ceart le nighean sam bith aca.
no: mu dheidhinn fhaireachdainnean-san agus a bheachdan-san...
2. However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.

Na buailibh mi!!! :naire:
Don't beat mi!!!
Last edited by poor_mouse on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:35 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:34 am

Tha mi den bheachd gu bheil na abairtean agam cho dona 's nach urrainn duine rud sam bith a ràdh mun deidhinn...
I think, my phrases are so bad that nobody can say anything about them...

Mar sin, seo ceistean agam:
So, that's my questions:

1. Ciamar a chanas mi "a single man"? Mar eisimpleir,
- "a married man" >> "fear pòsda",
- "a single man" >> ???

2. Ciamar a chanas mi "a man with a fortune / a house etc"? Mar eisimpleir,
- "this man has a house" >> "tha taigh aig an duine sin",
- "(this is) the man with a house / in possession of a house etc" >> (seo) am fear aig a bheil taigh / sealbh amsaa (???)

Nach cuidich sibh leam?
Would you like to help me?
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby faoileag » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:01 pm

It's a very long, complicated, highly stylised sentence even in English and doesn't really tr*nsl*te literally.
That means it's hard to know where to begin with corrections / suggestions.

Well done for giving it a go :moladh: , but as a learner, I would suggest you try first to use things you have learned, not to tie yourself in knots with literary devices. Even for advanced learners and fluent speakers literary tr*nsl*tion is a specialised skill - I wouldn't want to attempt it myself. I think that's a lot of people's experince, hence the lack of response - we wouldn't actually know how best to render it ourselves without changing /simplifying it.

A few people on here could probably make a decent stab at it - I don't think I could, though! :priob:

Tha mi duilich!

With your breadown into short items (your questions), you're already getting more out of it.

am fear aig a bheil... is right.
gun phòsadh / singilte (modern) - single

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:51 pm

Mòran taing!
Seadh, tha fios agam gu bheil an teacsa seo ro dhoirbh, ach tha e nas inntinniche na mo smuainean-sa.

Yeah, I know that this text is too intricate, but it's more interesting than my own thoughts. :(

I must simplify it really. However, let's return to the first sentence.
1. ’S e an fhìrinn aithnichte a tha ann gum feum am fear gun phòsadh aig a bheil sealbh mòr bean ag iarraidh.
no: ... gu bheil air an duine na aonar aig a bheil sealbh mòr ri bean ag iarraidh.

1. It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

A bheil sin ceart (roughly):
-- the well-known, acknowledhed truth >> an fhìrinn aithnichte
-- the single man with large fortune >> am fear gun phòsadh aig a bheil seilbh mòr
-- the man (such and such) must be in want of a wife >> tha air an duine / am fear (sin) bean ag iarraidh
(no: feumaid e bean ag iarraidh).
Last edited by poor_mouse on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby faoileag » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:01 pm

The last part doesn't work - too complicated and doesn't really make sense. Simplify, simplify! :spors:

Here are some constructions that may be useful for playing around with:

Feumaidh gu bheil thu sgìth! - You must be tired! (deduction, not obligation)

Tha feum agam air rudeigin - I need something

Tha rudeigin a dhìth orm - I need, am in need of, am lacking / wanting ('want' here doesn't mean ag iarraidh but to be lacking)

Spòrs dhut! :lol:

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby Seonaidh » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:34 am

Chan eil mi eòlach air Pride 's Prejudice. Dè th' ann an "janeite"? Janette? ('S dòcha "Seonaid" no "Seonag"?) Co-dhiù, mar a thuirt Faoileag, mean is mhean.

"1. It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife." - gu dearbh, cha mhòr dhomh an seantans seo a thuigsinn sa Bheurla! 'S dòcha gun tuirtinn rudeigin coltach ri "We all know a rich man is a magnet for women". Agus mar a tha an cànan air gluasad, air leasachadh 's dòcha, mar sin 's dòcha gum biodh Gàidhlig car shean nas fheàrr an seo na Gàidhlig "as she is spoke today". "Is fìrinn shoilleir gu bheil bean a dhìth air fear aig a bheil seilbh phrìseil." - 's dòcha? I'm no eòlaiche!

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:20 am

Tapadh leibh, Fhaoileag, a Sheonaidh!
Mean air mhean, gu dearbh!

A Sheonaidh, tha "janeite" a' ciallachadh duine aig a bheil beò-ghlacadh le (???) Jane Austen.
... person obsessed by Jane Austen
...must be in want of a wife
Tha mi den bheachd gum feum sin a bhith coltach ri "a rich man must need (and maybe) search after a wife".
Mar sin, tha e coltach gu bheil "bean a dhìth air fear..." ceart, mar a thuirt Faoileag.

'S e facal math a tha san 'soilleir', ach 's dòcha gu bheil facal eile a dhìth oirnn: it's a truth universally acknowledged, but not quite right really.

Is fìor thoil leam am facal 'prìseil', tapadh leibh!

Mar sin, tha 'universally acknowledged' a dhìth orm fhathast airson a' chiad seantans...
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby faoileag » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:41 pm

Dè mu dheidhinn ' aithnichte fas is farsaing'? - recognised far and wide?

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:02 pm

Bu toil leam e, ach chan eil mi 'fas' a lorg san fhaclair no 'fas is farsaing' san eadar-lìon...

(Ghabh mise 'aithnichte' an toiseach -- tha mi toilichte ma tha sin ceart!).
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby faoileag » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:53 pm

Oops, 's e typo a bh' ann - fad is farsaing!

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Glè mhath agus mòran taing! :)

Seo an seantans seo a-nis:

Is fìrinn aithnichte fad is farsaing gum feum bean a dhìth air fear gun pòsadh aig a bheil seilbh phrìseil.

A bheil sin ceart? Sgrìobhaidh mi an ath sheantans a dh'aithghearr.
Last edited by poor_mouse on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:24 am

2. However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.

Seo mo bheachdan mu dheidhinn an dàrna seantans:

a) “little is known”:
- tha ach beagan fhios aig daoine mu dheidhinn…
- tha daoine ach beagan eòlach air…
- cha mhòr nach eil fhios aig daoine… (next to nothing?)
- cha mhòr neo-aithnichte a tha... (???)

b) “however”: b’ fheàrr leam “ge b’ e” a chleachdadh, ach chan eil fhios agam ciamar a tha e a’ dèanamh.
’S dòcha “Ge b’ e fios beag a tha ann aig daoine mu dheidhinn” -- ???

c) instead of "the feelings or views of such a man may be":
dè tha am fear seo fhèin a’ faireachdainn ’s a’ saoilsinn -- ???

d) "on his first entering a neighbourhood":
nuair a tha e a’ tighinn dhan nàbaidheachd a’ chiad uair
(b' fheàrr leam abairt nas fhasa na sin...)

e) "this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families":
tha an fhìrinn seo suithichte cho math ann an inntinn teaghlaichean na sgìre seo

f) "that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters":
’s a tha iad g’ fhaicinn mar cobhartach ceart (laghail, dligheach???) le nighean sam bith aca
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby Seonaidh » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:05 pm

Dè ciall an t-seantans seo? Tha cunnart an seo ri bith ro litricheil san eadar-theangachadh, smaoin. Tha cuimhne agam air rudeigin a thàinig dom mhàthair a sgrùdadh (rugadh 's togadh i ann an Chile), oidhirp bana-Shasannach do litir Spàinnis a sgrìobhadh: chuir i "Yo voluntad ir" air "I will go"... Co-dhiù. "such a man": seo am fear aig a bheil sealbh phrìseil, nach e? Mar sin, ciallaichidh an seantans rudeigin coltach ri "Nuair a thig fear singilte beairteach don sgìre, feuchaidh gach teaghlach an nighnean a phosadh ris a dh'aindeoin fhaireachdainnean." Chan eil sin direach na sgrìobh Seonag NicAughustain: is d' obair a-nis atharrachaidhean a dhèanamh don chruth as fheàrr a lorg air an t-seantans tùsail. Na tèid do ghreimeachadh le "however little known" amsaa, oir chan eil e coltach gum biodh sgrìobhadair Gàidhlig air na cruthan ud a chleachdadh.

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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby poor_mouse » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 am

Mòran taing, a Sheonaidh!
Tha a h-uile abairtean a tha thu a' sgrìobhadh glè fheumail dhomh gu dearbh!
Is toil leam iad a leughadh fiù is ged nach sgrìobhainn-sa dad sa Ghàidhlig gu math... (??? even if I'll not write anything good in Gealic)

Bu mhòr m' amharas nach biodh "however small etc" ceart sa Ghàidhlig; "a dh'aindeoin fhaireachdainnean" -- tha sin glè mhath! Agus dè mu dheidhinn "his views"? A bheil "a bheachdan" ceart no ceàrr?

Mu dheidhinn "feuchaidh gach teaghlach an nighnean a phosadh ris": tha sin ceart, ach tha an rud eile ann; tha iad cinnteach gum bi e pòsadh ri tè den nigheannan aca (some one or other of their daughters).
Agus tha mi den bheachd gu bheil am fear seo mar shealbh no mar chobhartach dhaibh (as they hope to catch him, I think, they consider him is a rightful prey?)
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Re: Pride and Prejudice

Unread postby GunChleoc » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm

Tha mi duilich nach do dh'fhreagair mi na bu luaithe, ach bha feum agam air mionaid no dhà far a bheil m' eanchainn ag obair gu ceart! :lol:

Seo na chànainn-sa:

Is i an fhìrinn aithnichte fad is farsaing gum biodh bean a dhìth air fear gun phòsadh aig a bheil seilbh phrìseil.

Is x = y:
x = i
y = an fhìrinn aithnichte fad is farsaing

Caran seann-fhasanta ach 's ann mar sin a tha an teagsa tùsail :)

gum biodh bean a dhìth air: biodh goes better with "must be in want" - it's an assumption

gun phòsadh - gun in the sense of "without" lenites.

Agus beagan spòrs: Am Fear a Bhios Fada gun Phòsadh
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam


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