A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

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A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Wilsons-of-Oxford » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:53 pm

Cùis-lagha mun bhàta-slaodaidh?

Lawsuit around Tug Boat?

Nì Comhairle na Gàidhealtachd rannsachadh feuch am faodadh iad Riaghaltas na Rìoghachd Aonaichte a thoirt gu lagh airson stad a' chur air seirbheis a' bhàta-slàodaidh a bha stèidhichte ann an Steòrnabhagh.

Highland Council investigation may bring an action against the UK Governemt to stop the removal of tug boat stationed at Stornoway.

:: Not sure about a lot of things in this paragraph.
- Nì is an item or thing, Highland Council Thing?
- What is the feuch am faodadh. I think my tr*nsl*t**n gets the point but I'm curious exactly what it says and what the sentence structre is here.
- Same concern for stad a' chur air.


Dh'aontaich comhairlichean aig coinneimh Diardaoin cumail orra ìmpidh a chur air an Riaghaltas am bàta a thilleadh.

The councilors agreed meeting held Thursday about urging the government to return the boat.

::Again curious about the sentence structure here and which parts go where.

Tha iad ag ràdh gu bheil sàbhailteachd aig muir ann an cunnart às aonais.

They are saying safety at sea may be at risk without

Chaidh an Anglian Monarch a' thoirt a-mach à seirbheis o chionn cola-deug.

ANGLICAN MONARCH has been given out of service since a fortnight.

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Seonaidh » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:45 pm

Uilleamaich Àth nan Dàmh wrote:Cùis-lagha mun bhàta-slaodaidh?
Lawsuit around Tug Boat?

Nì Comhairle na Gàidhealtachd rannsachadh feuch am faodadh iad Riaghaltas na Rìoghachd Aonaichte a thoirt gu lagh airson stad a' chur air seirbheis a' bhàta-slàodaidh a bha stèidhichte ann an Steòrnabhagh.
Highland Council investigation may bring an action against the UK Governemt to stop the removal of tug boat stationed at Stornoway.
:: Not sure about a lot of things in this paragraph.
- Nì is an item or thing, Highland Council Thing?
- What is the feuch am faodadh. I think my tr*nsl*** gets the point but I'm curious exactly what it says and what the sentence structre is here.
- Same concern for stad a' chur air.


Dh'aontaich comhairlichean aig coinneimh Diardaoin cumail orra ìmpidh a chur air an Riaghaltas am bàta a thilleadh.
The councilors agreed meeting held Thursday about urging the government to return the boat.
::Again curious about the sentence structure here and which parts go where.

Tha iad ag ràdh gu bheil sàbhailteachd aig muir ann an cunnart às aonais.
They are saying safety at sea may be at risk without

Chaidh an Anglian Monarch a' thoirt a-mach à seirbheis o chionn cola-deug.
ANGLICAN MONARCH has been given out of service since a fortnight.

Lawsuit about [the] tug-boat: "mun" is "mu" + "an", but a typical English headline would miss out "the".

Highland Council will do research to see if they could take the UK government to law for stopping the tug-boat service that was stationed in Stornoway: not surprised you had problems with that, the Gaelic isn't exactly Somhairle MacIllEain class... Things to note: "nì" means "does", "makes", will do", "will make" etc. as appropriate (as well as "thing"): it's the "future" of "dèan". The "feuch" should really have been "feuchainn". "See" is not a literal tr*nsl*t**n, but an English idiot ("see if they could" is what I've put for a more litetral "try to [see] if they could". "Stad a' chur air", if you've reproduced it right, shows a mistake in the Gaelic: there should be NO apostrophe (stad a chur air". As for what it is, it's a bit of Gaelic inversion meaning "to put a stop to" (the "stop" comes before the "put", hence I said inversion). "Stationed" is not really literal either, but yes, it's definitely the sense of "stèidhichte".

The councillors agreed at Thursday's meeting to urge the government to bring back the boat. Here, "cumail orra impidh" is "to urge", literally "to keep on pleading" or some such. "Aig coinneimh Diardaoin" is "at Thursday's meeting (note the prepositional case of "coinneamh" - it is after a preposition!)

They say that safety at sea is in danger without it. The only slight twinge with the Gaelic here is "aig muir": if I was being really fiendish and doing the literal, I'd have writted "at a sea" here, as that's what the Gaelic says. Quite often, when the English idiot drops any article whatsoever, e.g. in expressions like "at sea", "to school", Gaelic sticks in the definite article, viz. "aig a' mhuir", "dhan sgoil". The other noteworthy feature is the "missing" pronoun: you'll see I put "without it", not "without". You'll not be astonished to learn that "without you" in Gaelic is "às d' aonais": similarly "às m' aonais" (without me), "às a h-aonais" (without her), "às ar n-aonais" (without us) "às [bh]ur n-aonais" (without you" and "às an aonais" (without them). But "without he" would theoretically be "às a aonais" and, as the "a" is never heard when speaking Gaelic, it's almost always also left out when writing it. Thus "às aonais" means not just "without" but also "without him" (and the boat used here is masculaine).

Rìgh nan Anglach was taken out of service a fortnight ago (the first bit's facetious). Again, a mistaken superfluous apostrophe in the Gaelic: should be "a thoirt". The construction used here is a fairly standard one for indicating the passive in Gaelic, viz. using the appropriate part of the verb "to go" followed by the passive subject and then "its" whatever the action done to it was. So "Chaidh an Anglian Monarch a thoirt", litereally "Went the A.M. its taking", tronslotes as "The A.M. was taken". The other thing, "o chionn" (lit. "of a head" or some such) is often used for "ago" in English, e.g. "X months ago" => "o chionn X miosan".

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby GunChleoc » Tue May 29, 2012 9:54 am

feuch am faodadh iad

the "feuch" here is correct. The expression goes:

Feuch an dèan thu seo - see if you can do that
Feuch gun dèan thu seo - you should try doing that

feuch am faighinn [A]
see whether I could get [N]!
http://www.faclair.com/ViewEntry.aspx?I ... 57139D87C0

feuch nach [G] thu
try not to [V], see that you don't [V]!
http://www.faclair.com/ViewEntry.aspx?I ... F1FA2AB9DA
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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Seonaidh » Thu May 31, 2012 6:10 pm

Chan e - co-theacsa?
"Feuch an dèan thu seo - see if you can do that": chan e rudeigin mar "The Council's doing research TO SEE if..." a tha seo, ach "See if ...". Tuig?

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby GunChleoc » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:37 am

see whether they could.... feuch am <Verb with conditional> iad ...

is the same construction as:

feuch am faighinn [A]
see whether I could get [N]!

CnG will do some research to see if they could take RnRA to court
Nì Comhairle na Gàidhealtachd rannsachadh feuch am faodadh iad Riaghaltas na Rìoghachd Aonaichte a thoirt gu lagh
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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Níall Beag » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:25 pm

Seonaidh wrote:Aig coinneimh Diardaoin" is "at Thursday's meeting (note the prepositional case of "coinneamh" - it is after a preposition!)

I think it's "at a meeting on Thursday" -- Gaelic is like US English: "at a meeting Thursday". This pattern occurs in a lot of European languages, and it's impossible to say which one US English borrowed it from.

Rìgh nan Anglach was taken out of service a fortnight ago (the first bit's facetious). Again, a mistaken superfluous apostrophe in the Gaelic: should be "a thoirt". The construction used here is a fairly standard one for indicating the passive in Gaelic, viz. using the appropriate part of the verb "to go" followed by the passive subject and then "its" whatever the action done to it was. So "Chaidh an Anglian Monarch a thoirt", litereally "Went the A.M. its taking", tronslotes as "The A.M. was taken".

Not quite (and this is one I've forgotten myself a couple of times).

Think about how the verb "to go" works. It takes no direct object (we call it an "intransitive verb" because it only affects the person who's going). If it was "its", we'd have something that literally translated to "the A.M. went its taking" which is impossible.

What we're after is something like "The taking of the A.M. went", so the word "a" here is that little one we've got no good word for -- I just call it "the inverting particle".

(Compare with the structure "gabh e (a) dhèanamh"/"gabh i (a) dèanamh". "Gabh" (take) needs a direct object -- somebody takes something -- so it makes sense that it's literally "it will take its doing" in this case.)

The other thing, "o chionn" (lit. "of a head" or some such) is often used for "ago" in English, e.g. "X months ago" => "o chionn X miosan".

"from head". Actually, for a more correctly literal tr*nsl*t**n, you'd either have to say "From the head of X months" -- the definite article never appears in the Gaelic because of the rule against double definitives (you can't say "the" twice in a string of nouns) and the thing that follows is always definite (even if it's not marked with a definite article, it's always a specific X months).

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Seonaidh » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:21 pm

Sin ceart.

On the "its" thing, you get "Thèid X a thoirt", never "Thèid X a toirt", regardless of X's grammatical gender. BUT you get grammatical agreement when X is a pronoun, e.g. "Thèid e a thoirt" and "Thèid i a toirt", not to mention "Thèid iad an toirt", "Thèid mi mo thoirt", "Thèid sinn ar toirt", "Thèid thu do thoirt" and "Thèid sibh ur [or bhur] toirt". So it's even unstraightforwarder...

"Feuch" is the root form of the verb, used in a familiar command and (usually air a sèimheachadh) in the past tense. The verbnoun, which would be more appropriate in this sort of usage, is usually "feuchainn". The English is probably best as "CnG will do some research to see if...". It is not the same usage as in a statement like "See if you can" (Feuch gun dèan tu): the "see" in the CnG example is not a command.

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby poor_mouse » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:38 am

...the "see" in the CnG example is not a command
Ach dè tha sin?
Chan eil mi a' tuigsinn an ruid seo: "nì ... feuch".
A bheil e mar giorrachadh (shortening) sam bith? An e "Nì CnG rannsachadh gun feuch" no "airson feuchainn"?
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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby GunChleoc » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:57 am

I don't understand your question, can you explain some more?

An English expression with similar meaning would be "I'm going to try and get..." although the grammar is of course a bit different.

Seonaidh wrote:On the "its" thing, you get "Thèid X a thoirt", never "Thèid X a toirt", regardless of X's grammatical gender. BUT you get grammatical agreement when X is a pronoun, e.g. "Thèid e a thoirt" and "Thèid i a toirt", not to mention "Thèid iad an toirt", "Thèid mi mo thoirt", "Thèid sinn ar toirt", "Thèid thu do thoirt" and "Thèid sibh ur [or bhur] toirt". So it's even unstraightforwarder...

Actually, you fell into the doubling of personal pronouns trap here.

Thèid mo/do/a thoirt, thèid a/ar/ur/an toirt. - I/you/he... will be put

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby poor_mouse » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:39 pm

Chan eil cuimhn' agam dè bha mi a' faighneachd... :)
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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Seonaidh » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:35 pm

I have no idea, GC! While the "sinn" etc. isn't needed, as it's obvious from the "ar" etc, I wouldn't hae thought it wrong to put it in. A bheil higher authority ann?

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby GunChleoc » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:08 am

According to the poor man's corpus (Google search):

"thèid ar" Mu thuaiream 671 toradh (0.22 diog)
"thèid sinn ar" 1 toraidhean (0.17 diog) which links to this thread

So I guess it's pretty clear. No "sinn".
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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby Seonaidh » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:31 pm

Not quite so clear-cut. I have found, e.g.:-

thèid iad an riarachadh
thèid iad sin an sgrùdadh
thèid e a chlàradh

These do seem rather exceptional, but not actually wrong. Hence, as I said before, the appeal to a "higher authority".

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Re: A' Leughadh Naidheachdan / Reading the News

Unread postby GunChleoc » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:19 pm

thèid iad sin an sgrùdadh looks like it has some form emphasis on it, were different rules apply.

Are the other two examples from native speakers, without being slips of the tongue?
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