An t-Òran Ailean Breac

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Màiri na Coille
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An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby Màiri na Coille » Thu May 23, 2013 8:41 pm

(Apologies for not writing this first part in Gaelic! :naire: )

Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson, is one of my favorite books and in fact is the book that ultimately inspired me to learn Gaelic. :) There's this one scene in the story where one of the main characters, a Highlander named Alan Breck Stewart, makes up a Gaelic victory-song after beating off some murderous sailors. Stevenson, however, only provides the English lyrics, so I've always wondered what Alan's song might have looked like in the original Gaelic. A few months ago I tried doing my own (very clumsy) tr*nsl*t**n. It's probably awful, but I thought I may as well post it here. Please correct!

Alan's Victory Song, by Robert Louis Stevenson

This is the song of the sword of Alan;
The smith made it,
The fire set it;
Now it shines in the hand of Alan Breck.

Their eyes were many and bright,
Swift were they to behold,
Many the hands they guided:
The sword was alone.

The dun deer troop over the hill,
They are many, the hill is one;
The dun deer vanish,
The hill remains.

Come to me from hills of heather,
Come from the isles of the sea.
O far-beholding eagles,
Here is your meat.


Seo an t-òran a' chlaidheamh Ailean,
Rinn an gobha e,
Chruadhich an teine e,
Deàlreach e a-nis anns an laimh Ailean Breac.

Bha sùilean aca mòran agus soilleir,
Bha iad luath a dh'fhaicinn,
Threòraich iad làmhan mòran:
Bha an claidheamh na h-aonar.

Triall na fèidh dhonn thairis air a' chnoc,
Tha na fèidh mòran, tha an chnoc na h-aonar;
Rach às an t-sealladh na fèidh dhonn,
Fuirich an cnoc.

Thig à na cnuic an fhraoich,
Thig à na h-eileanan na muir.
A iolairan fad-fhradharcach,
Seo do fheòil.

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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby faoileag » Thu May 23, 2013 11:01 pm

Meal do naidheachd - tha e an-còmhnaidh uabhasach doirbh òran no bàrdachd eadar-theangachadh.
:moladh:

Chan eil mi cinnteach a bheil mòran daoine air an fhòram seo a bhiodh comasach no aig am biodh ùidh neo ùine gus dèiligeadh ri seo, ach air neo, bidh cuid de na daoine air liosta-d. Gàidhlig-B a' dèanamh rudan mar sin bho àm gu àm.

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=GAIDHLIG-B




Congratulations - it's always incredibly difficult to tr*nsl*t* songs or poems.
I'm not sure if there are many forum members who would be capable of dealing with this, or who would have time or interest, but otherwise there are people on the Gaelic B e-list who sometines follow these things up.

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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby poor_mouse » Fri May 24, 2013 8:19 am

Glè mhath!

Lorg mi seo:
Seo òran chlaidheamh Ailein,
is e an gobha a rinn e,
is e an teine a leag e,
a nise, deàrrsaichidh e ann an làimh Ailein Bhric.

Is lìonmhor agus soilleir a bh' an cuid sùilean,
is ann luath a bha 'd ri amharc,
is iomadh làimh a stiùirich iad:
Bha an claidheamh na aonar.

Tha na fèidh donn a' siùbhal thar a' chnuic.
Tha iadsan lìonmhor, tha 'n cnoc na aonar.
Theirigidh na fèidh donn,
is an cnoc a' fantail.

Trobhadaibh 'ugam o na cnuic fhraoich,
thigibh a nall o eileanan na mara.
A iolairean geur-shùileach,
seo dhuibh an fheòil.

dreach Gàidhlig: "Ailean Breac Stiùbhart", Acsail Koehler

A bharrachd air sin tha teacsa glè innntinneach ann sa Ghàidhlig, sa Ghearmailtis agus sa Bheurla.
Besides, there is some interesting text there in Gaelic, German and English.

I'll be glad to discuss some particulars, but maybe not in this (bilingual) topic? Maybe somewhere in "Grammar, Sounds and Expressions"?
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby faoileag » Fri May 24, 2013 11:09 am

'S e An Gille Donn ( ball an Fhoraim) a th' ann an Acsail. Faodaidh sibh uile deasbaireachd ma dheidhinn! :D

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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby poor_mouse » Fri May 24, 2013 12:29 pm

Tha sin fìor sgoinneil!

Ach an leugh esan fhèin na postaidhean againne an-seo?
Faodaidh e rud no dhà a sgrìobhadh do luchd-ionnshachaidh mu dheidhinn sin.

That's really great!

But does he read our messages here?
He could tell something to the learners.


Agus nach fhaod sinne uile rud no dhà a ràdh mun eadar-theangachadh le Màiri na Coille -- gràmar agus msaa.
A Mhàiri, nach leugh sibh dà theacsa seo agus 's dòcha gum bi ceistean agaibh mun deidhinn.

As for the tr*nsl*t**n by Màiri na Coille, we all could say something about grammar, couldn't we?
Mairi, if you read these two texts, maybe you'll ask some questions about them?
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby Seonaidh » Fri May 24, 2013 9:12 pm

I note:-
(Beurla) This is the song of the sword of Alan
(Oidhirp) Seo an t-òran a' chlaidheamh Ailean
(Nas fheàrr) Seo òran chlaidheamh Ailein

This shows a lot of things. Firstly, the RLS English "tronslotion" (I doubt it actually was...) is somewhat "Gaelicised" in terms of word order etc., inasmuch as a native English speaker would more likely say something like "This is the song of Alan's sword" (although probably not "This is Alan's sword's song"...).

Secondly, English has a somewhat strange "genitive" structure - as illustrated in ultimate form by the final rendition in parentheses. That is, the "genitives" come first, all with their "genitive markers" (usually the letter S with an appropriately-placed apostrophe) and all articles - definite or indefinite - (words like "the" or "a") - vanish apart from the first one. However, this rather odd genitive structure can be avoided by using - as is done in the RLS "tronslotion" - the word "of" before the noun to indicate genitive. However, the result can look a bit stilted, as in "the song of the sword of Alan"

Aside: using a mixture of English genitive forms - as suggested in the "natural" sounding "the song of Alan's sword" - can be ambiguous - especially when the first two items often form a "stock expression", e.g. "the chief of staff". For an expression like "the chief of staff's concerns" could be interpreted as "the chief concern of staff" or as "the concerns of the chief of staff": the S-genitive in English can "float" to make a "stock expression" like that genitive.

If one examines the Gaelic I have labelled "Nas fheàrr" (better), you will notice a complete lack of articles. This is because the final item is a proper name and hasn't got an article - and because all articles before the last one vanish in such a "genitive chain". So, just as in English it would be wrong to write, e.g., "the sea's the house", so it would be wrong in Gaelic to write "an taigh na mara". In Gaelic - just as in English - it's only the actual "genitive" thing "na mara" - "the sea's") that keeps the article - the other bit loses it (just "house" - just "taigh").

Another thing to note is that Gaelic still has a "case" system - as has English. In both languages, the "case" system has become somewhat rudimentary, but it hasn't completely vanished - as it has done in e.g. Welsh. In English, "genitives" are almost always shown by "'s" (singular) or "s'" (plural), with pronouns providing the only exception I can currently think of. In Gaelic, it's not quite so straightforward: some nouns just don't change at all in the singular genitive (e.g. "cumhachd" - power), while others get thinner (as in example - e.g. "Ailean" => "Ailein") and a few add an A (often with other changes, e.g. "druim" => "droma" - rigg). Short female-gender nouns often add an E, e.g. "sgoil" - "sgoile". Unlike English, however, such changes (a) only affect the LAST in a "genitive chain" and (b) are also seen in ADJECTIVES.

Anyway, "the song of the sword" would be "òran a' chlaidheimh". However, if you add Alan into the picture, the article before "chlaidheimh" vanishes - and "chlaidheimh" reverts to its "standard" form (claidheamh). Personally, that's the form I would use in "the song of Alan's sword"/"the song of the sword of Alan", though the "better" tr*nsl*t**n quoted has a sèimheachadh (lenition) on "claidheamh" still: I'd only do that if "òran" was female gender, which it isn't.

So, putting it all together:-
* the song - an t-òran
* the song of the sword - òran a' chlaidheimh
* the song of the sword of Alan - òran claidheamh Ailein

Genitive plurals in Gaelic - if you need them - if they have the definite article, it's just the genitive plural with "nan" in front (genitive plural form of "the"). Without an article, it's just the genitive plural - but with sèimheachadh if it can be shown, e.g. "a Pict" - "Cruithneach"; "the Pict" - "an Cruithneach" - or "a' Chruithneach" if female; "of a Pict" - "Cruithnich"; "of the Pict" - "a' Chruithnich" - or "na Cruithnich[e]" if female; "Picts" - "Cruithnich"; "of Picts" - "Chruithneach"; "of the Picts" - "nan Cruithneach"
Note how this noun - and in general nouns that make their plurals with thinning (by changing the last vowel, as in "foot" - "feet" in English) - revert to the "singular" form for the genitive plural. Nouns that DON'T do this usually keep the ordinary plural form for the genitive plural.

Duilich - sorry - rabbited on too long...

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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby Seonaidh » Fri May 24, 2013 9:23 pm

Oh aye, "spotty Alan = "Ailean Breac", while "of spotty Alan" = "Ailein Bhric" (note the adjective going genitive)
"Falkirk" in Gaelic is "An Eaglais Bhreac", "In Falkirk" is "Anns an Eaglais Bhric", "Falkirk's library" is "Leabharlann na h-Eaglais[e] Brice". But you didn't really want to know about the prepositional case, did you...

Màiri na Coille
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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby Màiri na Coille » Fri May 24, 2013 9:50 pm

Tapadh leibh, a h-uile duine!

What a great response! This is a lot of information and I can't reply in full right now, but I will read everything carefully and see what questions I have.

Mòran taing a-rithist!

Màiri na Coille
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Re: An t-Òran Ailean Breac

Unread postby Màiri na Coille » Mon May 27, 2013 10:16 pm

Ceart gu leòr--I'm moving this topic to the grammar thread at poormouse's suggestion, if anyone's interested in answering my grammar questions!


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