Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

An toil leat ceòl, bàrdachd no ealain sam bith eile? Am faca tu rudeigin inntinneach air an TBh? Innse dhuinn air / Do you like music, poetry or any other art form? Did you see anything interesting on the telly? Tell us about it
User avatar
EowynAnduin
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:45 pm
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Toronto Canada
Contact:

Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby EowynAnduin » Thu May 31, 2012 2:15 pm

Bha ann an mo ceann seo dh ùine. A bheil ceart seo?
This has been in my head for a bit. Is this right?

O Brìghde cluinn m' ùrnaighean
O' Bride hear my prayers

Beòthaich, mo solas
Light my light

Beòthaich, mo bheatha
Light my life

Tapadh Leibh

Kim :)



User avatar
Seonaidh
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:00 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Faisg air Gleann Rathais

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby Seonaidh » Thu May 31, 2012 6:56 pm

Who's Bride? Seriously, I did once know an Irish woman called - we never saw it spelt - Breda: presumably it was Bríde. And yes, in Gaelic this would be Brìghde as in MacGilleBrìghde and so on.

Would the light bit not be "Beòthaich mo sholas"? Literally, "Enliven my light", of course.

As for stating that something is of Irish provenance, it's more usual to use "à" than "(bh)o", so "A sonf from reland" would usually be "Òran à Èirinn". If you wanted to use "(bh)o" for some reason, you could always miss out (or, indeed, NOT miss out) the bit in brackets (bh), but not really the "o". What usually happens, with place-names, is that it tends to become "a" and, indeed, behave in the same way as the "a" than come from "do" or "dha". This means that "from Ireland" would be "a dh'Èirinn" - identical with "to Ireland" or "for Ireland" and deducible (if there is such a word) from the context.

Not that I imagine you're greatly fascinated with this, but "Èirinn" was originally the prepositional (dative) case of Ireland - just as you still sometimes see the dative/prepositional case of "Scotland" (Albainn): you'll be familiar with the subject case (Alba) and the genitive (Alban), no doubt, though even the genitive's now rare (Banca na h-Alba rather than Banca na h-Alban). The old subject case of Ireland is probably remarkably similar to the modern Irish for it - Éire - though ir may have been Eriu.

Níall Beag
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Chan eil gaidhlig agam agus cha bhi
Location: Dún Èideann, Alba
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby Níall Beag » Thu May 31, 2012 8:17 pm

EowynAnduin wrote:Bha ann an mo ceann seo dh ùine. A bheil ceart seo?
This has been in my head for a bit. Is this right?

O Brìghde cluinn m' ùrnaighean
O' Bride hear my prayers

Beòthaich, mo solas
Light my light

Beòthaich, mo bheatha
Light my life

Tapadh Leibh

Kim :)

It's unlikely that you would give an order in a prayer.

If you look at the Latin originals of many modern Christian prayers, what looks like a command in Modern English is actually a wish or request (in the "subjunctive", if you're familiar with the term). The traditional Gaelic structure is to use a "gu/gun/gum" clause.

You may have seen "gura math a thèid leat" -- that it be good/well that goes with you.

Consider that the English "Have a good night"/"enjoy your night" isn't a command, but a shortened form of "I hope that you have a good night/enjoy your night." In Gaelic, the full form is "Tha mi 'n dòchas gun còrd an oidhche riut" and the short form is "Gun còrd an oidhche riut" -- "Enjoy the night"

Níall Beag
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Chan eil gaidhlig agam agus cha bhi
Location: Dún Èideann, Alba
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby Níall Beag » Thu May 31, 2012 8:23 pm

Lighting a flame uses the verb "las". I've heard "las suas" -- I don't know if that's a traditional form or an anglicism.

User avatar
akerbeltz
Rianaire
Posts: 1686
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 am
Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
Location: Glaschu
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby akerbeltz » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:19 am

It's unlikely that you would give an order in a prayer.


I beg to differ ... thoir dhuinn ar n-aran?

User avatar
poor_mouse
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:33 pm
Language Level: beginner
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: An Ruis, St Petersburg
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby poor_mouse » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:01 am

I think that though "Gun còrd an oidhche riut" is a wish and not a command, but there may be both wishes and direct entreaty in prayer, i.e. subjunctive and imperative.
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

Níall Beag
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Chan eil gaidhlig agam agus cha bhi
Location: Dún Èideann, Alba
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby Níall Beag » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:43 am

Oops. Indeed, looking at the French version of the Pater Noster, there's several imperatives in there...

User avatar
GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4357
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby GunChleoc » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:29 am

à Èirinn = from Ireland

a dh'Èirinn = to Ireland
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

User avatar
poor_mouse
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:33 pm
Language Level: beginner
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: An Ruis, St Petersburg
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby poor_mouse » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:27 am

Níall Beag wrote:Oops. Indeed, looking at the French version of the Pater Noster, there's several imperatives in there...
Tha an aon rud san Ruisis :)
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

CairistionaNicD
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:16 am
Language Level: Beginner to early intermediate
Location: Ottawa

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby CairistionaNicD » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:30 pm

A Sheònaidh,

Brìde was a goddess figure in Irish mythology, the daughter of the Dagda and one of the Tuatha de Danann. She's the same as Brigid (that's what Wikipedia has her listed under) or Bridget.

User avatar
EowynAnduin
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:45 pm
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Toronto Canada
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby EowynAnduin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:33 pm

To quickly give some contextual information I will write in English

While in Ireland last year we spent time with the Bridgetine Nuns. They taught us a few of their songs/chants. This is one of them. We we're celebrating Bridget at the time of La Feile Bride.

As noted by CairistionaNicD she is seen as such. There are many "stories/tales/myths/legends" surrounding "Brigid/Bride/Brighde/Bridget/Mary of the Gaels" as there are ways to spell her name.

The song has come up again as I am preparing to visit. There are many sites Brigid visited in Scotland. Some of them I have on my plans. Hense my curiosity with how to sing the song in Gaidhlig

[Edit]

A bit more.

The song is soft. It is an 'asking' to light life/light. Like a kindling or spark.
Last edited by EowynAnduin on Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
EowynAnduin
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:45 pm
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Toronto Canada
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby EowynAnduin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:07 pm

Mòran Taing na h-uile.
Thank you Everyone

Òran à Èirinn - Tapadh leat Seonaidh

Nìall Beag you have the feel for it. That is what I was attempting to convey. Tapadh leat


I am going to review it all again on Monday and see what I can come up with. I have issues, with myself, attempting to do this (edit/answer/rework) too quickly while heading out the door. Word order, and feeling are not to be rushed. A bit more studying is in order :) Let's see what I can do :)

Kim

jjb362
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:25 pm
Language Level: Fluent
Location: Glasgow

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby jjb362 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:48 am

My own thought about the bit at the start, where you are expressing that this has been in your head for a bit and asking if it is correct, would be to say

Tha seo air a bhith 'nam cheann car ùine. Am bheil seo ceart?

If you use bha, it implies to me that it was in your head and has now gone - the use of tha and air show that it has been and still is. Also, remember that mo lenites, and car ùine or car greis is Gaelic for "for a while". Also seo, is the subject of your question, so it has to come immediately after the verb.

Seumas

User avatar
Seonaidh
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:00 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Faisg air Gleann Rathais

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby Seonaidh » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:59 pm

CairistionaNicD wrote:A Sheònaidh,
Brìde was a goddess figure in Irish mythology, the daughter of the Dagda and one of the Tuatha de Danann. She's the same as Brigid (that's what Wikipedia has her listed under) or Bridget.

Aidh, ken. Did I not quote the surname MacGilleBrìghde (son of the servant of Brìghde)? I have actually read the Book of Invasions (Lebor Gabála Érenn - Leabhar Gabhalaichean na h-Èireann). I was being a bit facetious - maybe thinking "bean-bainnse"...

Níall Beag
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Chan eil gaidhlig agam agus cha bhi
Location: Dún Èideann, Alba
Contact:

Re: Tha a' seinn bh' Èirinn / A song from Ireland

Unread postby Níall Beag » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:31 pm

jjb362 wrote:My own thought about the bit at the start, where you are expressing that this has been in your head for a bit and asking if it is correct, would be to say

Tha seo air a bhith 'nam cheann car ùine. Am bheil seo ceart?

If you use bha, it implies to me that it was in your head and has now gone - the use of tha and air show that it has been and still is. Also, remember that mo lenites, and car ùine or car greis is Gaelic for "for a while". Also seo, is the subject of your question, so it has to come immediately after the verb.

Seumas

In fact, I believe you could even just use the present, as most of Europe does. Using "air a bhith" is a recent borrowing from English.
Tha seo nam cheann bho chionn ùine. or le ùine