Ceistean: TYG

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
poor_mouse
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Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:21 am

Maybe it's trivial...

TYG by Robertson & Taylor, Aonad 11, còmhradh:
Feumaidh mi film eile a chuir anns a’ chamara mus fhalbh sinn.
...
Fhalbh thu ann ma thogras tu agus fuirichidh mise aig an tràigh gus an till thu.
What does this form "fhalbh" means in two cases?
And why mus fhalbh sinn, but gus an till thu?
And "an till" -- is it an interrogative form of the future tense or something else?

Cuidichibh, ma 's e ur toil e!


Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by akerbeltz » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:01 am

The first fhalbh is odd, I'd expect mus falbh.

The second is the unhelpful spelling of thalla, a verb form which only exists in the imperative (and which historically derives from falbh).

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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:02 pm

Tapadh leibh!

So, both cases of "fhalbh" are rather strange in this dialogue.
As I indestand, the second case is imperative, isn't it?
And what about "gus an till thu" (vs "mus falbh sinn")?
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GunChleoc
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by GunChleoc » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:44 pm

mus = before
gus = until

These little words don't all have the same grammar.

gus an till, far am bi...
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:09 pm

gus an till, far am bi -- interr. future,
cuin a bhios (-s fut.),
mus falbh -- what's this?

Though maybe it would be better for me to get on without haste; maybe further in this course it'll become more clear.

Ach 's e ceist eile ann (from the same dialogue):
Dè mu dheidhinn a dhol chun na tràghad on a tha an latha cho math?
What does this "on" mean? I know o, on, bho, bhon -- from, since; is that it?
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by GunChleoc » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:05 pm

bho is often just o. That goes for all froms of bho, like bhon -> on, bhuam -> uam

I checked Colin Mark's, bhruidhinn mi ris mus do dh'fhalbh e. There is also a form mus + an which gets shortened to mun/mum. So, the same thing actually as far an and gus an.
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by Thrissel » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:06 am

poor_mouse wrote:Ach 's e ceist eile ann (from the same dialogue):
Dè mu dheidhinn a dhol chun na tràghad on a tha an latha cho math?
What does this "on" mean? I know o, on, bho, bhon -- from, since; is that it?
R&T was my TYG as well and I remember this one troubled me too until I noticed the 'since'.
So you could tr*nsl*t* the sentence into English as What about going to the beach, since/as/??? ??? the day is so good?!

The form of the verb following mus is treated in Aonad 15, Gràmar 6; I don't remember a section about gus though.

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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:01 am

GunChleoc, Thrissel -- tapadh leibh!

I suspected that this "on" meant "since", but I didn't sure why "on", not "o", and so doubted a little.
Moreover, "since" has two meanings, and I was not sure that it might be "as, because of" here.
Tha sin soilleir gu leòr a-nis -- rè na h-ùine seo.

Eilidh
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:34 am

(bh)o + an = (bh)on

plural: bh(o) na
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:26 pm

Tha sin ceart, ach ...
what about "on a tha an latha cho math"?
Why "on" here, not "o"?
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:51 pm

Deagh cheist *gets Dictionary* (bh)on is a conjunction in this case, just like agus, no, ach,... this means it has a fixed form which happens to be on/bhon
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:24 pm

Mòran taing!

Thuigsinn mi "on" seo a-nis.

(A bheil sin ceart?)
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:29 pm

Tha mi a' tuigsinn an "on" seo a-nis.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by poor_mouse » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:38 am

Tha mi a' tuigsinn an "on" seo a-nis. :)

Mòran taing!
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Re: Ceistean: TYG

Unread post by GunChleoc » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:39 am

'S e do bheatha! :D
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