Tha passve a rèir William Lamb

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
GunChleoc
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Tha passve a rèir William Lamb

Unread post by GunChleoc » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:38 am

Following a discussion in the tr*nsl*t**n project, here are the means to form a passive:
  • Passive participle

    Tha an sgeul sgrìobhte a's a' leabhar
  • Passives in bi + Noun Phrase + Aspect + (Possessive personal pronoun) + (lenited) Verbel Noun

    Tha an rìgh ga mharbhadh aig na searbhantan

    Tha = bi
    an rìgh = Noun Phrase
    ga = aig + a = Aspect + Possessive personal pronoun
    mharbhadh = lenited Verbal Noun


    Bi an rìgh air a mharbhadh - the king will be killed

    not to be confused with:

    Tha an rìgh ga mharbhadh - the king is killing him
  • Passives in rach + Noun Phrase or Possessive personal pronoun + (lenited) Verbel Noun

    thèid am ball a phutadh a-steach - the ball will be kicked in
    thèid a phutadh a-steach - it will be kicked in
    chaidh falbh
  • Impersonal endings

    Similar in meaning to usage of on in French

    chreachadh am baile


Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

eideard
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Unread post by eideard » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:29 pm

. Passive using the verb "gabh"

I came across the following in Litir do Luchd-ionnsachaidh 236:
gabhaidh a h-uile gin dhiubh faicinn air an eadar-lion: all of them can be seen on the internet. The use of the verb gabh here creates a passive which indicates a capability. Traditionally the verbal noun following gabh is not lenited eg gabhaidh e dèanamh(it can be done); an gabh sin a bhith(can that be [the case]?); thuirt e gun gabhadh an obair coileanadh ( he said the work could be completed);dè gabhas dèanamh ? (what can be done?) It is worth noting, however, that the verbal noun is commonly lenited today,particularly in Lewis, so that you might hear gabhaidh e a dhèanamh instead of gabhaidh e dèanamh.

Thanks to Ruairidh MacIlleathain.

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Unread post by neoni » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:49 pm

"cha ghabh daoine tuigsinn"

abairt as toil leam

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Unread post by Seonaidh » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:18 pm

Chan eil fios agam [fhathast] air a' phassive. A bheil sin ceart mu dheidhinn "gabh"?

cafodd y dwr ei yfed - - ghabh an t-uisge ga òl
cei di fynd - - gabhaidh thu falbh
cafodd y ty ei losgi - - ghabh an taigh a losgadh

???

Anns a' Bheurla "the water got its drinking", "you get to gan", "the hoose got its burning" no rudeigin coltach.

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Unread post by amhlaobh » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:15 am

Mar a sgrìobh Eideart: "indicates a capability"

gabh seo ithe - "this can be eaten" as in "this is edible"
gabh an t-uisge òl - "the water can be drunk" as in "it is drinking water"

Mar sin, 's e dòigh sònraichte dhen ghuth fhulangach (passive).

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Unread post by neoni » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:24 am

gabhaidh

ach aye, 's e rudeigin a tha comasach.
"cha ghabh sin dèanamh" - (that won't take doing) "that can't be done"
"gabhaidh sin ionnsachadh" - (that will take learning) "that can be learnt"
"ghabhadh sin dèanamh" - (that would take doing) "that could be done"

JoP
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Passive

Unread post by JoP » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:05 am


Tha an rìgh ga mharbhadh aig na searbhantan


Is this literally "The king is killing himself at the servants" and does it tr*nsl*t* as "the king is killed by the servants" or "the king is being killed by the servants"

Is "aig" the normal way of tr*nsl*t*ng "by" in an English sentence.

Is this a bit like using reflexive verbs to indicate the passive in French - except you can only use this construction in French in a general sense (le roi se tue - but not le roi se tue par les servants)

Also the TAIC site gives the construction

active tense of verb To Be + subject + air + possessive adjective + verbal noun.

which I suppose would be

Tha an rìgh air a mharbhadh

literally I suppose the king is on his killing

Have I got that right and can you say


Tha an rìgh air a mharbhadh aig na searbhantan

neoni
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Unread post by neoni » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:26 am

i'd say "le/leis" instead of aig, but aig might be a dialectical thing i don't know.

but yup, "tha an rìgh ga mharbhadh leis na searbhantan" - "the king is being killed (present tense) by the servants"

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Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:53 am

According to Lamb, you can use both aig and le.

Tha an rìgh air a mharbhadh aig na searbhantan should be correct.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

neoni
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Unread post by neoni » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:47 pm

ceist agam do dhuine sam bith aig a bheil fios

chaidh innse dhuinn gu bheil e an-còmhnaidh nas fhèarr bhith a' cleachdadh rach an àite am fear le air, far a bheil e idir comasach.

"chaidh a dhèanamh" an àite "tha e air a dhèanamh", mar eisimpleir. a bheil beachd aig duine eile? dhèanainn sgàradh san ciàll, ach 's e th' annam ach fear-ionnsachaidh iosal, is bu toil leam cluinntin o fhileantaich. dè 'n eòlas a th' agamsa?

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Unread post by Stìophan » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:45 pm

Bidh mise a' cleachdach am fear le 'rach' gu math tric a bhith ag innse mu dheidhinn rudeigin a thachair mu thràth m.e. :

Chaidh ceud taighean air an togail an-uiridh

100 houses were built last year

:)

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Unread post by eideard » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:47 pm

Stìophan wrote: Chaidh ceud taighean air an togail an-uiridh

100 houses were built last year

:)
Carson nach Chaidh ceud taighean a thogail an-uiridh ?
100 houses were built last year.

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Unread post by Stìophan » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:48 pm

eideard wrote:
Stìophan wrote: Chaidh ceud taighean air an togail an-uiridh

100 houses were built last year

:)
Carson nach Chaidh ceud taighean a thogail an-uiridh ?
100 houses were built last year.
Thu thu ceart Eideird!

Bha cabhag orm nuair a bha mi a' freagairt :naire:

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