Grammar Question

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
Faolan
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Grammar Question

Unread post by Faolan » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:53 pm

Which of these would be more correct?

Dè a tha thu ag iarraidh a tha mi a' ràdh?

Or

Dè a tha thu ag iarraidh gu bheil mi a' ràdh?

Could you also tell me why one is more correct than the other?



faoileag
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by faoileag » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:13 pm

Neither! :lol:

In Gaelic, you ask 'on someone' for something, or to do something (a bit like the English - to ask something of someone). You need the preposition 'air' before the person.


Tha iad ag iarraidh airgead oirnn - they are asking us for money.

Tha mi ag iarraidh ort bruidhinn sa Ghàidhlig. - I want you to speak in Gaelic. (bruidhinn = verbal noun)

If the verb has an object, i.e. I want you to do something, you put it before the verbal noun, add 'a', and lenite the verbal noun if possible.

Tha mi ag iarraidh ort sin a dhèanamh - I want you to do that.


This would actually be best in the Grammar section of the forum, so more people are alerted to it and can chip in, so I'll move it over there.

It's a good one - thanks for raising it! :D

Please continue the topic there: http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/foram/vi ... =11&t=2400

Faolan
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Faolan » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:42 pm

So: dè a tha thu ag iarraidh orm a ràdh sa Gàidhlig?

A bheil sin ceart?

Thrissel
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Thrissel » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:28 am

Ceart, except that after anns a'/sa you lenite, so it's dè (a) tha thu ag iarraidh orm a ràdh sa Ghàidhlig?

Faolan
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Faolan » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:30 am

Tapadh leibh!

JLBeale
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by JLBeale » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:26 pm

Chan fhios agam ciamar a chanainn seo:
An robh sin coirleighte? No: an robh sin sgrìobhte gu ceart? No: an robh sin sgrìobhte ceart?

faoileag
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by faoileag » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:26 pm

I presume you got coirleighte from Dwelly (possibly via Am Faclair Beag)?
You may have seen a sort of cross in front of the word - that means it is no longer in use; it's 'dead'.

† Facal no ciall mharbh. (Abbreviatons: http://www.faclair.com/Help/Abbreviations.html )

I would go for sgrìobhte gu ceart - written correctLY.

akerbeltz
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by akerbeltz » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:22 am

or air a sgrìobhadh/litreachadh mar bu chòir; gu ceart, while technically a correct adverb, doesn't really sit that well with Gaelic traditionally.

JLBeale
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by JLBeale » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:15 pm

Bha mi leisg agus cha do ghabh mi beachd air an comharra sin. Móran taing! Cha dèan mi sin a-rithist. :D

Agus chuireadh Beurla air "An robh sin air a sgrìobhadh mar bu chòir?" mar a tha "Was that on which had been written as it was ought?"? Ach chanadh sibh "do rinn an obair gu ceart" no "bidh an sgeulachd ag innse gu ceart"?

faoileag
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by faoileag » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:11 pm

Air a sgrìobhadh' = 'after its writing', in other words 'written'.
A common way to express the past participle, and one of the several ways of expessing the English passive.

'mar bu chòir' = 'as it should (be) / as was right and proper', and as Akerbeltz pointed out (I didn't think of it at the time but have to agree), is more idiomatically Gaelic and used more often than the adverb 'gu ceart'.

So you could equally well say 'Rinn e an obair mar bu chòir.'

JLBeale
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by JLBeale » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:23 pm

Móran taing Faoileag; just so I have this settled anns m' cheann le eisimpleirean:

As a passive future, "Bidh am meòrachan air a sgrìobhadh mar is còir." agus as an active past, "Sgrìobh e am meòrachan mar bu chòir." both jive well idiomatically?

GunChleoc
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by GunChleoc » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:39 am

You don't change "mar bu chòir" to match the tense of the rest of the sentence. "as it should" remains as it is, just like in English.

"Bidh am meòrachan air a sgrìobhadh mar bu chòir."
"Sgrìobh e am meòrachan mar bu chòir."

one more point: ann an + mo = nam -> nam cheann :)
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Faolan
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Faolan » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:46 pm

With iarr, would you use an inverted nominal?

Tha mi ag iarraidh chun an stòir a dhol

No:
Tha mi ag iarraidh a dhol chun an stòir.

Thrissel
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Thrissel » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:54 am

You use invertion when in English you have want + infinitive + direct object:
I want + to buy + the book
tha mi ag iarraidh + an leabhar + a cheannach

However, in your example you have want + infinitive + prepositional phrase, so there's no invertion:
I want + to go + to a store
tha mi ag iarraidh + a dhol + chun a stòir

Faolan
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Faolan » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:41 am

A bheil faclair-bhruidhinn ann? Tha mi ag iarraidh ionnsachadh Gàidhlig, ach cha urrain dhomh a bhruidhinn le duine sam bith.

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