Grammar Question

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
GunChleoc
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:11 pm

Faodaidh tu èisteachd ri cuid dhe na faclan san Fhaclair Bheag http://www.faclair.com/ agus sa Bhriathrachan Bheag http://www2.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/facl ... faclair=bb

You can listen to some words on ... and ...

Cuideachd, faodaidh tu èisteachd ri fuaimean air Akerbeltz http://akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Fu ... 3%A0idhlig

YOu can also listen to sounds on...


Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

faoileag
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by faoileag » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:20 pm

Faolan wrote:A bheil faclair-bhruidhinn ann? Tha mi ag iarraidh ionnsachadh Gàidhlig, ach cha urrain dhomh a bhruidhinn le duine sam bith.

Skype thread! :lol:

Michael
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Michael » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:33 pm

Hello, everybody.
I've just started learning Gaelic, but already have lots of questions. Please, could you help me?

1) I've noticed that the phrase "Tha mi a'dol ..." sometimes is followed by "gu" and sometimes by dan/dhan . Is there a rule, which one I should use? If it is possible give me a link.

2) I know that the verb "abair" is irregular. But I didn't find "can" between its forms. Is that another verb. And if it is so, what is the difference?

3) I was trying to tr*nsl*t* one sentence. And there was the word "spòrsal". I did find it in dictionaries. But I translated it with texts that were in English and in Gaelic as "joyous" or "full of fun". But why it was escaped from dictionaries? Is it slang?

Níall Beag
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Níall Beag » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:26 pm

Michael wrote:1) I've noticed that the phrase "Tha mi a'dol ..." sometimes is followed by "gu" and sometimes by dan/dhan . Is there a rule, which one I should use? If it is possible give me a link.
There are two words for "to": gu and do. There's no 100% rule on which to use when, and it varies from place to place. "don/dhan" is do + the article an.

So
... dol dhan taigh - going to the house
... dol gu/do taigh no coireigen - going to some house or other.
3) I was trying to tr*nsl*t* one sentence. And there was the word "spòrsal". I did find it in dictionaries. But I translated it with texts that were in English and in Gaelic as "joyous" or "full of fun". But why it was escaped from dictionaries? Is it slang?
You're just missing a letter... spòrsail with an I. It's in several dictionaries. It's from the same Latin root as sport, but refers to general fun and leisure, rather than specifically athletics and games.

akerbeltz
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by akerbeltz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:36 am

It's not quite as fuzzy as that. As a rule of thumb, the forms of do imply 'into' while gu isn't necessarily all the way into a place or thing.

So tha mi dol dhan Òban/a Dhùn Èideann normally involves crossing the city boundary and going into the town whereas the sign Fàilte gun Òban more or less states a fact when you reach a certain point i.e. even if you don't go further you're nonetheless welcome.

Tha mi a' dol dhan taigh similarly implies you're going into the house; tha mi a' dol gun taigh implies going up the the house but not into, perhaps to speak to someone at the door.

Also, as a rule of thumb, going to [placename] almost always involves do in the reduced form of a.

What shape the form of do or gu takes on the other hand IS dependent on the dialect in question as Niall suggests.

Seonaidh
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by Seonaidh » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:50 pm

Fàilte gun Òban
Really? Nach e "Fàilte chun an Òbain" a b' fheudar a bhith ann an seo?
tha mi a' dol gun taigh
? Tha mi a' dol chun an taighe

Agus sin mi a' smaoineachadh "Welcome without Oban" agus "I'm going without a house"...

"Bidh mi a' dol gun teagamh" - I'm going to the doubt...you only know it's wrong because "dol" needs an indirect object - even if it's only the vague "ann". Dè tha dol?

faoileag
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by faoileag » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:18 pm

Bha fios agam gun do leugh mi rudeigin mar seo roimhe air an Fhòram, agus lorg mi e:

Akerbeltz fhèin:
http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/foram/vi ... =11&t=2282
(17 April 2012)
Footnotes: whether to use dhan an or dhan, dhen an or dhen etc is a matter of preference. Only those which add an s (e.g. ri » ris an) must have the an. don vs dhan and den vs dhen is for the most part a question of formality over colloquialness though some southern dialects also prefere don/den. For the most part, stick to dhan and dhen, I'd recommend.
Some exhibit a rather baffling array of options, especially gu. At the conservative end, this becomes chun an, causing lenition and the genitive. At the colloquial end, this just lenites. And you [have] forms which are half way.
chun an taighe » towards the house
chun taigh » towards the house
gun (an) taigh » towards the house
I have read that 'gun' = to the version elsewhere too, maybe in TAIC, but can't find that reference.

akerbeltz
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by akerbeltz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:08 pm

Sin e. Tha mearachd litreachaidh air (bhiodh gun Tòb nas fhearr) ach seo eisimpleir às na h-eileanan far a bheil gu > gun air leth cumanta:

Image

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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by poor_mouse » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:46 am

Tha sin inntinneach gu dearbh!

Tha "gun" fìor dhoirbh dhomh: 's ann uimhir de rudan as urrainn dha ciallachadh, mar "that", "without" 's "to the", agus tha mi ann an ceò gu tric! :(
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

akerbeltz
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by akerbeltz » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:41 am

Carson? Mar is trice, cha nochd gun (=as aonais) an dèidh gnìomhair gluasaid mar dol/falbh. Chan eil e nas toinnte na an diofar eadar pérmit agus permít ann am Beurla.

poor_mouse
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by poor_mouse » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:02 pm

Agus dè mu dheidhinn seo, mar eisimpleir?
Uileam Ros wrote:Gun tì’ Nollaig Mhòr le sonas,
Gu comann gun phràbar;
On ’s lìonmhor gaisgeach le sàr acf[h]ainn
Thèid gu feachd na tràghad;
Mar shluagh Mhic Chumhail le cruaidh fhiùbhaidh,
Ruaig gun chùn’ air stràcan;
Bi’dh Muireardach maide fo bhinn chabar
Gun stad i sa’ Bhràighe.
Tha an dàrna "gun" (gun phràdar) agus an treas "gun" (gun chùn') a' ciallachadh "without"; tha an ceathramh "gun" coltach ris "until", nach eil?
Ach chan eil a' chiad "gun" cho soilleir nam bheachd...
'S dòcha gur e "that" a tha ann, mar deagh dhùrachd, an e?
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

akerbeltz
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by akerbeltz » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:06 pm

Ìoc, dè tha thusa leughadh ;) Chan eil bàrdachd furasta, ge be dè an register no 'n cànan. Nise, gu faic mi... litreachadh sgriosail...
Gun tì’ Nollaig Mhòr le sonas,
Tha mi dèanamh dheth gur e gun ti(g)... a tha seo. Chan fhaigh thu ach gun 'that' san t-suidheachadh seo
Gu comann gun phràbar;
Seadh, gun 'as aonais', cha dèanadh dad sam bith eile ciall an-seo, bhiodh to a group, to the rabble gun chiall sam bith.
On ’s lìonmhor gaisgeach le sàr acf[h]ainn
Thèid gu feachd na tràghad;
Mar shluagh Mhic Chumhail le cruaidh fhiùbhaidh,
Ruaig gun chùn’ air stràcan;
Chan eil seo soilleir ri linn an litreachaidh 's chan ann ri linn gun, chanainn. Leis gu bheil an seantans roimhe a' tòiseachadh le Mar..." feumaidh gur e ainmear a tha ann an Ruaig (nam b' e gnìomhair a tha ann, bhiodh dùil ri riochdaire, m.e. air stràcan e/i. Leis gur e ainmear a tha ann, feumaidh gu bheil an gun 'na dhèidh a' ciallachadh 'as aonais'. Ruaig gun chùmhn(adh) air stràcan, chanainn, scatter without sparing the lashes'
Bi’dh Muireardach maide fo bhinn chabar
Gun stad i sa’ Bhràighe.
A-rithist, ri linn syntax, chan fhaod seo a bhith ach 'that' seach 'as aonas'.

Chan eil mi ag ràdh gu bheil seo furasta dhan luchd-ionnsachaidh ach tha a leithid a rud air leth cumanta ann an cànan sam bith. Bhiodh a' Bheurla nas soilleire as aonais long distance binding (i.e. See this nail? When I nod my head, hit it with a hammer - ann am Beurla tha an dà chiall "ceart", bualadh na tarraige agus bualadh a' chinn ri linn na h-àithne seo) ach coma leis a' Bheurla sin :)

poor_mouse
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by poor_mouse » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:14 am

Seo rann às an dàn "Moladh Gheàrrloch" le Uileam Ros; bha mi eadar-theangachadh gu Ruisis an-uiridh.
Tha thu ceart gu dearbh, Akerbeltz! Chan eil Beurla nas fhasa na Gàidhlig, ged a thòisich mi Beurla ionnsachadh o chionn fada. :)
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

GunChleoc
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Re: Grammar Question

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:04 am

Michael wrote:I know that the verb "abair" is irregular. But I didn't find "can" between its forms. Is that another verb. And if it is so, what is the difference?
There are two verbs for "say": abair (which is irregular) and can (which is regular).

In modern usage, the future tense of abair is usually not used and replaced by the future tense of can.

The difference btween the two is in idiomatic usage I guess. For example, in these two expressions:

Abair thusa gu bheil sin doirbh!
Can seo!

The two verbs are not interchangeable.
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