Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
Lughaidh
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:22 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: A' Bhreatann Bheag

Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by Lughaidh » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:48 am

Hallò

tha beagan cuideachaidh a dhìth orm airson fuaimneachadh roinnt fhaclan -- a-rèir dualchainnt Leòdhais, mas urrainn...

Is there some website where one can hear Lewis speakers talking, and with a transcription? I need to know especially how are the slender rd, rt, rn, rl pronounced in Lewis. Looks like in certain cases, in Lewis they use a broad retroflex consonant when it is slender in writing: for instance it looks like they say things like "càrdan" instead of "càirdean". Is this right? Is this systematic?

Here are a few words for which I need a Lewis-like pronunciation (if you can write in the IPA it's better :-) )

abaid
a-bhon-dè
abhsadh
actair
Aimeireaga
àireamhachadh
aonadh-ciùird
apracot
Àrd Ruigh
Baile Dhùn Lèibhe
bailead
bàirneach
Bearaig
Beàrnaraigh


tapadh leibh!!!



GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4451
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by GunChleoc » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:27 pm

I know that Carl Borgstrøm and Magne Oftedal have done some scientific work on that
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Lughaidh
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:22 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: A' Bhreatann Bheag

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by Lughaidh » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:44 am

I have those books you're refering to but I couldn't find the answer there (nor these words), that's why I'm asking here :)

akerbeltz
Rianaire
Posts: 1745
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 am
Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
Location: Glaschu
Contact:

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by akerbeltz » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:33 pm

Looks like in certain cases, in Lewis they use a broad retroflex consonant when it is slender in writing: for instance it looks like they say things like "càrdan" instead of "càirdean". Is this right? Is this systematic?
r + dnt can all lead to a retroflex dnt and a loss of the r (page 231 in Blas na Gàidhlig, if you have that).

As the the geographical spread, the Survey reporst them all over the Hebrides though in some cases it's the intrusive s that is retroflex (in àrd) rather than the d.

Lughaidh
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:22 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: A' Bhreatann Bheag

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by Lughaidh » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:55 am

Thanks, actually I know it makes retroflex consonants, but I wanted to know if in Lewis, people use depalatalized retroflex consonants where you'd except palatalized ones eg. bàirneach like bàrnach [ˈpaːɳɔχ], càirdean like càrdan [ˈkʰaːʈən] etc... :)

akerbeltz
Rianaire
Posts: 1745
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 am
Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
Location: Glaschu
Contact:

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by akerbeltz » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:51 pm

You should buy the Survey of Gaelic Dialects (DIAS has a massive bargain just now, €20 instead of €170).

All instances of càirdean in the Survey which have a retroflex have no signs of palatalness which isn't that surprising really, I think a palatal(ised) retroflex would be hard to articulate.

Lughaidh
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:22 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: A' Bhreatann Bheag

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by Lughaidh » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:05 pm

Ordered! thanks for telling me :)
Btw in songs, for the word càirdean, even in Uist Gaelic, I hear a kind of retroflex r followed by a palatalised d. Did you hear that too?

akerbeltz
Rianaire
Posts: 1745
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 am
Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
Location: Glaschu
Contact:

Re: Pronunciation of words (esp. in Lewis Gaelic)

Unread post by akerbeltz » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:25 pm

'S e do bheatha!

That's more of an alveolar approximant [ɹ], an allophone before d/t.

Post Reply