Grammar query

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
An Gobaire
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by An Gobaire » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:14 pm

It would be: tràth-bleoghainn for the "milking period" in some areas. I did a quick search ...and this seems the most common term for it, well the only one that appeared in my limited collection of phrases and expressions.


Dèan buil cheart de na fhuair thu!

Frangag
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:08 pm

1) For some reason I can't find out how to tie something to something!

The man tied the dog to the leg of the chair - Cheangail am fear an cù ri cois na cathrach.

Does cheangail take ri + dative?

Tapadh leibh

2) A quick question about adverbs. Gu + adjective is used - so quietly would be 'gu sàmhach'. But I can't find a proper explanation of superlative adverbs. One mentions the use of glé with adverbs also, so for 'very quietly' would you say 'gu glé sàmhach'?
Last edited by Frangag on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by poor_mouse » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:51 am

2) No, 'glè sàmhach' is enough.

I do not know the rules, but I think that 'gu' goes only tête-a-tête with adjective, making adverb - without fìor, glè etc.
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faoileag
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by faoileag » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:50 pm

And yes, ceangail takes 'ri'.

akerbeltz
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by akerbeltz » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:52 pm

glè sàmhach > glè shàmhach

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by poor_mouse » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:05 pm

:naire:
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

Frangag
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:54 pm

GunChleoc wrote:From informal to formal:

Chaidh mi dhan mhargadh
Chaidh mi don mhargadh
Chaidh mi chun a' mhargaidh

Ri doesn't fit here.

I assume then that there's a significant difference between the use of ris and do when saying 'to'? Could someone give me some examples of either of them being used exclusively in any one context? Any pointers appreciated as I'm not finding it that easy to find a pattern.

eg:
go to a place = do
tie to a chair = ris

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by poor_mouse » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:27 am

"ri/ris" implies some interaction, I think (as between mi and my chare if I'm tied to it :) ).
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:16 pm

Thanks - I've just come across the post at http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/foram/vi ... =11&t=2282 which I've saved and will study!

Even better, have just looked in my newly arrived Gaelic Grammar by George Calder and found three pages of 'ri', half a page of 'do' and nearly 20 altogether on prepositions. Appears life is about to get a whole lot easier - I was despairing of finding a Grammar like this one! O :urnaigh: gu :moladh:

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by akerbeltz » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:54 pm

I don't want to rain on your parade but be very careful with Calder, he mixes so many layers of language with no warning, from really ancient stuff (we're talking Middle Irish) to whatever was current in his day (and he was born in 1859 to give you some steer there). So if it helps you understand, that's a good thing but be very wary of using Calder as an authority over more recent stuff.

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:45 pm

akerbeltz wrote:I don't want to rain on your parade but be very careful with Calder, he mixes so many layers of language with no warning, from really ancient stuff (we're talking Middle Irish) to whatever was current in his day (and he was born in 1859 to give you some steer there). So if it helps you understand, that's a good thing but be very wary of using Calder as an authority over more recent stuff.
Hello Akerbeltz

Well, I suppose I was half expecting something like that! Have you any suggestions for alternatives? What I'm looking for is a comprehensive and old-fashioned type primer and, if it exists, a prose composition book. My goal is reading/writing mainly but older texts/Gaelic etc, so I don't want anything aimed at modern-day Gaelic (I'm doing that as well, but it's very much secondary). I've sourced a number of old grammars online but, whilst old is good for me (I don't work well from modern style language courses), what I definitely don't want is to find I'm accidentally doing Irish - Middle or otherwise!!!. It must be Scots Gaelic. The ones I've downloaded so far are:

Duncan Reid - Elementary Course of Gaelic.
MacBean - Elementary Lessons in Gaelic
Alexander Stewart - Elements of Gaelic Grammar
James Munro - A Practical Grammar of the Scottish Gaelic
James Munro - A New Gaelic Primer
Forbes - The Principles of Gaelic Grammar
MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught + Key

If you're familiar with any of these, I'd be really grateful for any similar warnings about Irish.
Many thanks

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by GunChleoc » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:48 am

Akerbeltz has a very nice explanation of "ri": http://akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Ri
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:13 am

Tapadh leat agus tapadh leibh!!

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by akerbeltz » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:17 pm

Hm I think you listed pretty much all of them. What period do you exactly mean with 'older'? 1800-1900? 1900-1950?

Not sure about Irish at all though I believe of the older ones, the Christian Brothers' grammar is held in esteem.

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:25 pm

Many thanks for your reply, akerbeltz. I've been put in touch with someone who's given me some detailed information on older Scots Gaelic prose and texts which suit my rather old-fashioned approach and interests!! I''m very grateful for everyone's help and input.

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