Grammar query

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
Frangag
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Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:28 pm

I'm doing some tr*nsl*t**n exercises and I'm not sure whether I need an 'a' in the first here. Any hints appreciated.

1) I don’t know which of them is right. = Cha’n’eil fhios agam có dhiubh/có aca a tha ceart.

2) Which of them shot the big one (deer)? = có dhiubh thilg le gunna am fear mór? Correct?



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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by GunChleoc » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:31 pm

1) Chan eil fhios agam cò dhiubh a tha ceart.

The 'a' is usually dropped when speaking, but you should write it to make the structure more clear.

2) Cò dhiubh a thilg/loisg air an fhear mhòr?
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Frangag
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:19 pm

Tapadh leat. I'm using an old textbook here - Duncan Reid. Is the use of apostrophes for chan eil an older feature which has been dropped or is it either/or? Do different dialects do different things?

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Níall Beag » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:48 pm

Frangag wrote:Tapadh leat. I'm using an old textbook here - Duncan Reid. Is the use of apostrophes for chan eil an older feature which has been dropped or is it either/or? Do different dialects do different things?
The apostrophe before eil is an old feature, reflecting the fact that there was historically another consonant before it (partially preserve in other forms, such as "a bheil...?"). The apostrophe in chan makes no sense at all, as historically the only thing dropped was before the CH ("nichon" or something like that in Old Irish).

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by GunChleoc » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:58 pm

That textbook seems to be about 100 years old, and spelling conventions have changed since then. For example:

dorus -> doras, so -> seo
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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:33 pm

Another query: to tr*nsl*t* 'to the market' , do you use the article or just say 'do mhargadh'? Can ri (s) be used as well? I can't find an example online to confirm this, not can I find an example with the article.

Tapadh leibh ro làimh! (excuse this but I'll probably be querying a lot of grammar and don't want to repeatedly send two words to the forum :-))

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:16 pm

From informal to formal:

Chaidh mi dhan mhargadh
Chaidh mi don mhargadh
Chaidh mi chun a' mhargaidh

Ri doesn't fit here.
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Na dealbhan agam

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Níall Beag » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:11 pm

In other words, you need the article.

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Seonaidh » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:35 am

As a rough rule of thumb, if you have something in English that refers to "a thing" or "an object", i.e. using the indefinite article, you use NOTHING in Gaelic (Gaelic has no "indefinite article" as such). If, however, you have "the thing" or "the object" in English, yes, you would usually use a definite article (an, am, a', na etc.) in Gaelic. This is also the case when there is NO article in English! Thus, for example, to put the following into Gaelic, you would have (respectively):-

I am at a school
I am at the school
I am at school

Tha mi aig sgoil
Tha mi aig an sgoil
Tha mi aig an sgoil

In general, for such things at "in school", "at work" etc you need the definite article in Gaelic.

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:14 pm

Tapadh leibh. I've another query. The sentence is 'The cat caught the head of the mouse in its teeth'. So I have 'rug an cat air ceann na lucha anns a fhiaclan'. Is this correct? Or would you use 'leis a fhiaclan'?

Tapadh leibh ro làimh!

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by An Gobaire » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:49 am

The sentence is 'The cat caught the head of the mouse in its teeth'. So I have 'rug an cat air ceann na lucha anns a fhiaclan'. Is this correct? Or would you use 'leis a fhiaclan'?
If it was ann then you would have "Rug an cat air ceann na lucha 'na fhiaclan." ('na is written without the ' but I have left it in to show that it is a contraction.)

If it was le then you would have "Rug an cat air ceann na lucha le fhiaclan." (le (a) fhiaclan)

I would say 'le fhiaclan'...because you have "rug ...air"...

But if no "rug..air" : "Bha ceann na lucha 'na fhiaclan" (ann am fiaclan a' chait)
Dèan buil cheart de na fhuair thu!

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:45 pm

Tapadh leat, An Gobaire!

Does your signature mean basically 'Make good use of what you've got/received'?

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Frangag » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:29 pm

1) How would I say 'the time passed very fast'. Assuming '? an ùine gu luath' is OK, what verb do I use? And what about 'I'm passing the time (of day)?' Would 'The mi a'cur seachad na h-ùine' be right?

I found online some comments, one of which was "For "spending" time, I would use "tog" or "caith" or "thoir" rather than
> "cuir seachad"." What do you all think? Agree? Or not?


2)I've found 'aig a bleoghann' for 'at the milking', but what about 'at milking-time'. Is 'aig àm-bleoghan' right?

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by Seonaidh » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:04 pm

I don't know about milking, but it does seem that "bleoghan[n]" is the verbnoun of "to milk". Literally, "aig a bleoghann" means "at her milking" (as it's somewhat difficult to milk a gentleman cow...), i.e. it describes what's happening to the cow, rather than specifying a temporal feature (i.e. "at milking time"). But both expressions (the Gaelic one and the English one) convey much the same information: in both, a cow is being milked - and this tends to happen at a set time of day. So I would suggest that "aig a bleoghann" would do for "at milking time".

However, if it's a more general concept ("when all the cows get milked", e.g., rather than just one), perhaps something like "aig uair bleoghan a' chruidh" would be better. You could also use "àm".

I think "caitheamh" is the usual verb for the passing of time. "Togail" is (usually) "to build" or "to raise", while "toirt" is more "to cast" or "to give". "Caitheamh" is "to spend" - as in money or time - and can often be used to imply a waste: also means "to waste away" and such like. "Cur" is very much "to put", but is usually used together with sundry prepositions to give special meanings: "seachad" means "past" or "beyond". "Cur seachad" is actually OK for spending time - literally "putting time past".

So, the only thing actually wrong with what you wrote (The mi a'cur seachad na h-ùine) - apart from the typo "The" instead of "Tha", that is - is that you didn't put a space between "a'" and "cur".

Incidentally, a "pastime" is "cur-seachad".

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Re: Grammar query

Unread post by akerbeltz » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:54 pm

So I would suggest that "aig a bleoghann" would do for "at milking time".
Hardly. Aig a' bhleoghann but that's just 'at the milking' which could be any time of the day technically.
"aig uair bleoghan a' chruidh" would be better. You could also use "àm".
aig uair would not be better, that sort of concept is almost invariably aig àm rudeigin.

As for time passing, I think falbh or aom would work better.

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