'an fhlat'

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arronmark
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'an fhlat'

Unread post by arronmark »

Hi all,

I am sort of new to these forums and Gaelic learning and have a question that has been burning for a while.
I know that the word 'am flat' is masculine and that in the genitive lenition should occur so would that mean it would become; 'an fhlat'?

Such as in the phrase; Buidheann an fhlat - the group the of the flat?


Thank you all,

A :)


MarcMacUilleim
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by MarcMacUilleim »

Yep. Masculine nouns exhibit the same lenition in the genitive as in the dative. There is also a general rule that they slenderise a final broad vowel sound as in an cat -> a' chait, but that is not indicated in Am Faclair Beag, so I'd say that an fhlat is correct.

http://www.faclair.com/?txtSearch=flat

cf

http://www.faclair.com/?txtSearch=cat
akerbeltz
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by akerbeltz »

It's in a way a bad example because it's a recent loanword and doesn't necessarily follow the same/right rules. But even historically, some words don't show inflection for the genitive. In terms of lenition, with f in loanwords that seems to be a bit of a thorny issue so avoiding flat as a loanword and using furan, buidheann + furan would indeed yield buidheann an fhurain.
MarcMacUilleim
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by MarcMacUilleim »

I wondered about the recent loanword thing, but does it not also mean 'saucer'...? Did it acquire both meanings at the same time?
akerbeltz
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by akerbeltz »

Hard to prove but I would say that 'saucer' is way older than 'flat' given its prevalence in SW Argyll.
Seonaidh
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by Seonaidh »

"Tha mi a' fuireach ann an saucer"? :)
Níall Beag
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by Níall Beag »

"Treòraich mi gu do cheannard!"
jks111
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by jks111 »

'S e cuspair inseanach a th'ann. I'm happy to accept that "flat" is a borrowed word and this raises the question of
whether or to what extent such words should follow perceived conventions. I would say also there may be a question as to whether the consonant combination "fl" at the start of a Gàidhlig word would trigger lenition. I'm off to do some
research into initial clusters and I'll let you know how I get on.
GunChleoc
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by GunChleoc »

fl can be lenited in general, e.g. in "A Fhleasgaich Oig Is Ceanalta"



And that CD sleeve could go on Sùil air a' mhearachd :lol:
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam
akerbeltz
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Re: 'an fhlat'

Unread post by akerbeltz »

The only ones you cannot lenite are:
st(r) sg sp sm
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