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'an fhlat'

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:43 pm
by arronmark
Hi all,

I am sort of new to these forums and Gaelic learning and have a question that has been burning for a while.
I know that the word 'am flat' is masculine and that in the genitive lenition should occur so would that mean it would become; 'an fhlat'?

Such as in the phrase; Buidheann an fhlat - the group the of the flat?


Thank you all,

A :)

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:10 pm
by MarcMacUilleim
Yep. Masculine nouns exhibit the same lenition in the genitive as in the dative. There is also a general rule that they slenderise a final broad vowel sound as in an cat -> a' chait, but that is not indicated in Am Faclair Beag, so I'd say that an fhlat is correct.

http://www.faclair.com/?txtSearch=flat

cf

http://www.faclair.com/?txtSearch=cat

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:17 pm
by akerbeltz
It's in a way a bad example because it's a recent loanword and doesn't necessarily follow the same/right rules. But even historically, some words don't show inflection for the genitive. In terms of lenition, with f in loanwords that seems to be a bit of a thorny issue so avoiding flat as a loanword and using furan, buidheann + furan would indeed yield buidheann an fhurain.

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:22 pm
by MarcMacUilleim
I wondered about the recent loanword thing, but does it not also mean 'saucer'...? Did it acquire both meanings at the same time?

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:20 pm
by akerbeltz
Hard to prove but I would say that 'saucer' is way older than 'flat' given its prevalence in SW Argyll.

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:01 pm
by Seonaidh
"Tha mi a' fuireach ann an saucer"? :)

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:10 am
by Níall Beag
"Treòraich mi gu do cheannard!"

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:49 pm
by jks111
'S e cuspair inseanach a th'ann. I'm happy to accept that "flat" is a borrowed word and this raises the question of
whether or to what extent such words should follow perceived conventions. I would say also there may be a question as to whether the consonant combination "fl" at the start of a Gàidhlig word would trigger lenition. I'm off to do some
research into initial clusters and I'll let you know how I get on.

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:57 pm
by GunChleoc
fl can be lenited in general, e.g. in "A Fhleasgaich Oig Is Ceanalta"



And that CD sleeve could go on Sùil air a' mhearachd :lol:

Re: 'an fhlat'

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:53 pm
by akerbeltz
The only ones you cannot lenite are:
st(r) sg sp sm