Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
Marie THOW

Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:20 am

Hello,
i'm learning (from France) on the wonderful TAIC (http://www.taic.me.uk/taic.htm) I'm just on the third lesson .... and I find this language difficult , but the pronunciation.... uabhasach! (It is possible to say glè uabhasach or cho uabhasar ?
I have some difficulties with the pronunciation of fearg and especially an fhearg (I've searched in am faclair but fhearg is jut in a sentence very fast)
If somebody with a microphone can give the word on http://forvo.com/languages/gd/ (I've added in "pending words" ) it would be great!
Thank you for you help and sorry for my English not perfect.



akerbeltz
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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by akerbeltz » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:59 am

Hm I think you need to start liking Gaelic pronunciation, it's both it's biggest linguistic feature and challenge for learners. It's something a learner must get broadly right if you ever want to speak to a native speaker.

I don't like Forvo and such site but an fhearg is quite easy, it's /ə Nʲɛrag/ so the fh is silent and the n strengthens to /Nʲ/ (as in agneau) and jumps onto the next word.

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:05 pm

I'm a musician, and I really need to heard, it's the only way for me to learn a language :(
and it's always quite easy when you say ;) and really difficult when you don't understand :(

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:11 pm

And by the way I love the sound of the scottish gaelic. I've decided to learn it searching old songs/ melodies on the NLS
(http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/fullrecord/63804/1 for exemple)
I really don't understand why you reject Forvo, it's a wonderful way to learning language and understand pronunciation.
I used a lot the phonetic alphabet when I've learned the Spanish in the university, but really it's not the same thing like hearing native people ;)
on Forvo, you can heard native people, you can also heard different accents.
(the location of the speaker is indicated) , really a wonderful tool!

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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by faoileag » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:47 pm

As an additional audio source, try the LearnGaelic dictionary - content taken (by permission) from Am Faclair Beag, but a different speaker. That way you have a variety of speakers to listen to (AFB, TAIC, LearnG) and can maybe get your ear more attuned.

an fhearg:
http://learngaelic.net/dictionary/index ... word=false

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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by akerbeltz » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:55 pm

Things like Forvo sort of work ok in bigger languages with lots of speakers but with smaller languages, it's a very dicey lottery. Sometimes you get lucky but often you just end up with stuff produced by enthusiastic and well meaning learners which is eye (or ear) wateringly bad. Basically anything that relies on peer review by strangers on the internet does not work well for small languages.

I once did some rough and ready stats and it seems that for every 500,000 speakers or so, you get one active localizer. Now I know Forvo isn't about tr*nsl*t*ng software but I would bet the farm that the ration of speaker vs participant is quite high. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, it's 100,000 to 1. With 80 million speakers that would mean some 800 people might be willing to contribute. But for a language like Gaelic, it means chances are less than 10 will contribute (the stats get a bit tricky for really small languages but the principle is sound). So if I (as a non-speaker of French) upload a bad pronuciation, chances are people are going to vote me down or put up a better tr*nsl*t**n quite soon. But for Gaelic or Rumantsch or Faroese or any such language, the chances are it will stay up there unreviewed for a long time. Of course you can get lucky. But you cannot rely on it.

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:21 pm

@faoileag : Tapadh leigh! :D :D
@akerbeltz : I understand you best now. But really I'm not agree. You can visualize the location of the speakers. So OK if there are higher %age of bad pronunciation in Gaelic, but you leave in Scotland, the gaelic is a part of your culture, you can heard, you can ask.
I've spotted two native speakers, and it's really helpful!
I'm leaving in France, learning the gaelic by myself is just a madness. Forvo is the first website you find when you are looking for the scottish gaelic pronunciation. (And usually the speakers speck slowly, on am faclair when the word is in a sentence, it's very fast!) And quicky listening the speakers, you understand who is native or not.. The others native speakers vote : good or bad.
And may be the better way to improve the level of the pronunciation it's just participate ;)
(I'm sorry for by bad english)

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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:51 am

Well, we already spend pretty much all out spare time in doing things like that, so putting our pronunciations up on Forvo as well would cut too much into our time. Also, not every Gaelic speaker who lives in Scotland is a native speaker, that would be a bit like expecting that your Breton or Basque pronunciation is perfect, because you live in France ;)

You could try Michael's book, which contains explanations and exercises for pronunciation: http://www.akerbeltz.eu/books.html

And he also has some free sound files on the internet: http://akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Fu ... 3%A0idhlig

When I started learning, I used Radio nan Gaidheal and music a lot.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:41 am

tapadh leibh!
The language on the radio is too fast for me, I've spotted some broadcast on the BBC Alba with the text in gaèlique (and in english) but it's to early for me, I 'll try in a few months.
The LearnGaelic dictionary indicates by faoileag is very hepfull because they speak slowly!

I had a look on your links, they seem maybe a little formal for a beginner but very helpfull too! I 'll try it this week :D
Thank you

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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:14 pm

I once started on a slow-paced beginners thing which I never finished - might be helpful to get you started though. http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/index.php?page=1
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:38 pm

OK thank you

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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by ~Sìle~ » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:27 pm

Marie THOW wrote:. . . (And usually the speakers speck slowly, on am faclair when the word is in a sentence, it's very fast!) And quicky listening the speakers, you understand who is native or not.. The others native speakers vote : good or bad.
And may be the better way to improve the level of the pronunciation it's just participate ;) . . .
If you wish to slow down an audio file, you can use software like Wavepad (our college recommends it for the audio file we use), so you can hear it better. A free version is available.

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:56 pm

Thank you @~Sìle~
I'm on linux ... so wapepad ignore me :( By chance I have audacity ;) (wonderful freeware! ) And thank you for the tip! I'm used it in music (when I want to understand the triplets in the interpretation of Sean Ryan for exemple!) , it's a good idea to use it with the language ! :D I'll try it!
For the moment I'm studying this link of akerbeltz http://akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Fu ... 3%A0idhlig, and this faclair given by faoileag : http://learngaelic.net/dictionary/ very very useful! :D
I don't give up! I'm thinking too about learning the bagpipe.... Scotland addict? ;)

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Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Mairead » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:32 pm

You might also like using Beag air Bheag - you can click on the words and phrases and hear the pronunciation as many times as you want. http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/
Tha avatar agam à dhealbh aig mo phiuthar anns an Cellardyke. Tha trì videothan Ghàidhlig agam anns an Youtube.
My avatar is from a photo that my sister took in Cellardyke. I have three Gaelic videos on Youtube.

Marie THOW

Re: Can you help me with the pronunciation?

Unread post by Marie THOW » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:19 pm

Thank you Mairead
I'll try this ;)

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