Feminine dative...help!

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
Kate McLaren
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Feminine dative...help!

Unread postby Kate McLaren » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:15 pm

Is it a' chlarsach or a' chlarsaich? A' chaileag or a' chaileig? I have two pdfs in front of me, one by SMO (where I'm studying online) and one by Akerbeltz. They disagree.

What is a mere learner to do?! Many thanks.



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akerbeltz
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Feminine dative...help!

Unread postby akerbeltz » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:37 pm

They are both right. It's a question of when either is right. The dative (air a' chaileig mhòir style inflection) is pretty dead in the water amongst native spoken Gaelic. Even the speakers who claim they use it don't when you actually listen to their speech. It's all following the air a' chaileag mhòr pattern.

It probably still has a place in really formal Gaelic, let's say your PhD or a formal speech. But in spoken Gaelic, I would never worry about it, neither in normal or informal register written Gaelic. I would personally never "correct" coursework handed to me using the air a' chaileag mhòr pattern but it may vary between tutors. I'd try using the non-formal pattern without it and see what happens.

Kate McLaren
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:13 am
Language Level: Beginner, but learning.
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Selkirk

Feminine dative...help!

Unread postby Kate McLaren » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:09 pm

You do realise you are my hero, Akerbeltz, so I would have been shattered if you had been "wrong". Your explanation was the one I was sort-of coming to myself but as a learner of just over a year's standing (though speaking quite a lot of other languages) I didn't quite have the confidence. Gaelic is probably the only language I have ever learned, or picked up, which is nearly as wild as English. And I've learned Russian and picked up (in my youth) quite a lot of Hungarian. A-mach agus a-suas! (which I'm sure is pure Beurlachas, but never mind)

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akerbeltz
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Feminine dative...help!

Unread postby akerbeltz » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:50 pm

8-) glad to have been of help - and you've just reminded me that I really need to update this page to reflect what I said above. Mind, I did write the original page more than a decade ago!

I don't think Gaelic is wild per se, it has some interesting features no doubt but what makes Gaelic complex at times is that it's so under-researched so it's often hard to get good answers. Unlike English or Russian or Hungarian which are so over-researched that when you ask a question, the answer is like casting Accio books in a library!

Kate McLaren
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:13 am
Language Level: Beginner, but learning.
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Selkirk

Feminine dative...help!

Unread postby Kate McLaren » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:45 pm

Ah. I see you have two pdfs, one for sean nos and the other for nos ur. I guess that when I first looked and saved the pdf I didn't realise the difference and only saved the nos ur one.

All is clear!
(I still think Gaelic is nearly as bonkers as English, and love it)