the use of different preposition and tu vs thu

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le humble
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the use of different preposition and tu vs thu

Unread postby le humble » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:54 pm

hallo every body

it's confuse for me, i can't understand the difference between several prepositions

gu vs ri : to
bho or o vs à : from
de: of is it a part of something like in french un morceau de pain (piece of bread)
or has it a value of genitive : eg the hand of the woman
and when thu or tu must be used

thanks for your help



faoileag
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the use of different preposition and tu vs thu

Unread postby faoileag » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:25 am

The bad news is:
tr*nsl*t*ng them into English (or anything) in isolation will probably not help.
For example, neither ri nor gu are really equivalent to the English "to" in any useful way.

The good news is:
1. There are general concepts which apply to them.
2. You can use them in very specific and common contexts which are learnable.

E.g.
ri has an idea of interface, overlap, relationship, involvement. NOT of motion or arrival.
bruidhinn ri, èisteachd ri, an coimeas ri / cho mòr ri / coltach ri, tha iad ris an iasgach, san àm ri teachd, nam sheasamh ris a' bhalla

gu has an idea of direction, transfer, a point in an itinerary/schedule, not an arrival. (that is better conveyed by do)
It's frequently paired with bho:
bho 1920 gu 1930, bho Shruighlea gu Peairt, 's fhada bhon uair sin, gu ruige seo, chuir mi post-d thugad agus fhuair thu post-d bhuam.

à - origin.Tha mi à Alba, dèanta à fiodh. Also idioms : moiteil à, cinnteach à (deriving my pride / certainty from a source)

de is indeed used with parts or quantities, rather than as a genitive. cuid de, glè bheag de, a' mhòrchuid de, gu leòr de



Thu and tu is a different category altogether. Phonetic rather than conceptual differences.

Best to learn them as you go along.
E.g. after verbs ending in -s, -dh, -a(dh)
Is: 's tu mo leannan, is tusa Calum
Relative Future: nuair a bhios tu, ma leughas tu
Cond.: nam biodh tu, an deànadh tu?
Verbs ending in -a: An cuala tu? Chan fhaca tu
Basically historical connection to the n,d,t,s lenition block rule.

le humble
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the use of different preposition and tu vs thu

Unread postby le humble » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:59 pm

thanks a lot
for you explanations ri is very similar of à in french (without motion and arrival of course)

tha iad ris an iasgach: ils sont à la pêche

de has the same meaning of partitif de in french

Níall Beag
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the use of different preposition and tu vs thu

Unread postby Níall Beag » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:16 pm

"ri" is more usually translated to English as "with" than to. "bruidhinn ri" is equivalent to English "speaking to", but "speaking with" is also possible in English.
"ri" implies some kind of reciprocity, some kind of active involvement of the other. Consider that in French you don't "discuter à quelqu'un" but "discuter avec".
(Gaelic has a second passive "with"/"avec" that implies no reciprocity or active involvement: le eg. cofaidh le bainne -- white coffee, lit. "coffee with milk". The milk doesn't do anything, it's just there. Compare with "cofaidh ri Isidh" -- coffee with Izzie: both you and Izzie are having coffee.)

le humble wrote:Source of the post
tha iad ris an iasgach: ils sont à la pêche

Yes, that's correct.

de has the same meaning of partitif de in french

This too.