Tenses: I am a tad confuzzled!

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
*Alasdair*
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:11 pm
Language Level: Gu math siubhalachd
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Alba
Contact:

Tenses: I am a tad confuzzled!

Unread postby *Alasdair* » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:33 am

Hey there :) I though as i haven't asked for help in a wee whiley i'd rack your brains with this question. It is all about that wonderful thing we like to call tense.
First off, i will start with regular verbs, i will use "Coimhead: To watch".

I understand fully how you get:

An robh thu a' coimhead? (WERE you watching?)
Bha/Cha robh mi a' coimhead. (I WAS/WASN'T watching)
Tha/Chan eil mi a' coimhead. (I AM/AM NOT watching)
Bith/Cha bi mi a' coimhead. (I WILL BE/WILL NOT BE watching)

However, i don't really understand:

Cha choimhead (Future negative)
Coimheadaidh (Future ???)

What do these two mean and how do you use them? I just don't see what they could possibly mean. How could you, in the case of Cha choimhead, not have watched something in the future, which is still yet to happen?

Please help :)



yellow-ceitidh
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:32 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Contact:

Unread postby yellow-ceitidh » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:39 am

I'm not sure at all, but could cha coimhead be past tense for 'I didn't watch' although I would have thought it would have had a do in it, like cha do thuit - 'I didn't fall'. :?:

And the other one - coimheadaidh. I thought adding aidh or idh onto the end of a verb made it future, a bit like in English you say 'I will'. Like the Runrig song Tillidh Mi, which means 'I will return', or when you say gabhaidh mi cofaidh - 'I will take coffee'. :)

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread postby neoni » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:29 am

cha choimhead is "i will not watch", as opposed to "i will not be watching" (cha bhi mi a' coimhead)
for example - "cha choimhead mi TBh a-nochd, tha sinn a' dol a-mach" (i won't watch tv tonight, we're going out"



people tend to use the bha/tha/bidh construction wrongly. saying "bha mi a' tuiteam" (i was falling), for example, means something completely different from "thuit mi" (i fell).
the distinction is EXACTLY the same as in english;
"i was doing that (when the phone rang)"
"i did that (and now it's finished"

*Alasdair*
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:11 pm
Language Level: Gu math siubhalachd
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Alba
Contact:

Unread postby *Alasdair* » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:17 pm

yellow-ceitidh wrote:I'm not sure at all, but could cha coimhead be past tense for 'I didn't watch' although I would have thought it would have had a do in it, like cha do thuit - 'I didn't fall'. :?:

And the other one - coimheadaidh. I thought adding aidh or idh onto the end of a verb made it future, a bit like in English you say 'I will'. Like the Runrig song Tillidh Mi, which means 'I will return', or when you say gabhaidh mi cofaidh - 'I will take coffee'. :)

Right. I understand now (It is the same in French too).
Cha choimhead - I will not watch BUT
Cha bi mi a' coimhead - I will not be watching

Choimheadaidh - I will watch BUT
Bith mi a' coimhead - I will be watching

cha choimhead is "i will not watch", as opposed to "i will not be watching" (cha bhi mi a' coimhead)
for example - "cha choimhead mi TBh a-nochd, tha sinn a' dol a-mach" (i won't watch tv tonight, we're going out"



people tend to use the bha/tha/bidh construction wrongly. saying "bha mi a' tuiteam" (i was falling), for example, means something completely different from "thuit mi" (i fell).
the distinction is EXACTLY the same as in english;
"i was doing that (when the phone rang)"
"i did that (and now it's finished"

Tapadh leibh :)
Tha mi a' tuigsinn a-nis.

Stìophan
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:43 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Inbhir Pheofharain

Unread postby Stìophan » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:54 pm

Just to add a wee bit more info, Alasdair:

Basically in English we have simple tenses and compound tenses, as mentioned before (I watch, I am watching).

In Gaelic we have this also, but NOT in the present tense. There is only the equivalent of the compound present tense, thus Tha mi a' coimhead can mean both I watch and I am watching, but however this does NOT apply to other tenses in most cases.

However there are exceptions, e.g. Smaoineachadh

I don't know abou anyone else but I have never seen Smaoin mi, Cha do smaoin mi, only Bha/cha robh mi a' smaoineachadh etc

Hope this helps :)

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread postby neoni » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:40 pm

you do see smaoinich mi and cha do smaoinich mi, though :priob:

Stìophan
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:43 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Inbhir Pheofharain

Unread postby Stìophan » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:48 pm

neoni wrote:you do see smaoinich mi and cha do smaoinich mi, though :priob:


Ah, wasn't sure what the 'root' of smaoineachadh was! :naire:

Thanks for that Neoni!

Do you use Smaoinich mi gun do X for I thought that X

I always tend to use Bha mi a' smaoineachadh :?

*Alasdair*
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:11 pm
Language Level: Gu math siubhalachd
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Alba
Contact:

Unread postby *Alasdair* » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:02 pm

You also have "Saoilidh mi" - I think
That means the same as "Tha mi a' smoaineachadh i think...

Saoilidh mi gu bheil thu ceart - I think that you are right

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread postby neoni » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:03 pm

yup, i use "smaonich mi gun do.."

a way i use for finding out if a construction is used is to type it into google in quotes
http://www.google.com/search?name=f&hl= ... +mi+gun%22


to avoid problems with tenses, you could use "bha mi den bheachd/bharail"

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread postby neoni » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:05 pm

*Alasdair* wrote:You also have "Saoilidh mi" - I think
That means the same as "Tha mi a' smoaineachadh i think...

Saoilidh mi gu bheil thu ceart - I think that you are right



yup, that's a good phrase too. "cha chreid mi" works the same, for the negative, but you can make it positive by giving a negative conjunction
"cha chreid mi nach eil thu ceart" - i think that you are right (i don't believe you are not right)

i think saying "saoilidh mi" makes your gaelic sound a lot better than always saying "tha mi a' smaoineachadh", by the way. hang on to that phrase and use it lots.



edit: thinking about it (not something i do often), i think saoilidh mi is a wee bit stronger than "tha mi a' smaoineachadh", coming originally from meaning "i think and will continue to do so"

Stìophan
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:43 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Inbhir Pheofharain

Unread postby Stìophan » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:37 pm

Yes, I agree with you there as well neoni, I think Saoilidh mi etc is a bit stronger than tha mi a' smaoineachadh.

Saoil, can also be used in the context of imagine as well as think:

Saoil gu bheil e ceart! Imagine he's right
8-)

faoileag
Maor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 am

Unread postby faoileag » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:34 pm

I would say 'Saoilidh mi' when it's my fairly permanent, black and white opinion, assumption, supposition, and 'tha mi a' smaoineachadh' when it's something I have just thought of and may yet revise, or only relevant to the current situation.

The simple future form implies regular activity or factual statement, the 'tha mi a'...' one implies ongoing or current activity or opinion.

Nach eil thu a' smaoineachadh gu bheil e rud beag fuar anns an t-seòmar seo? - Don't you think it's a bit cold in this room? = at the moment

Saoilidh mi gu bheil Gàidhlig gu math cumanta ann an Leòdhas fhathast.
- I think/suppose/imagine/am of the opinion that G. is quite common in Lewis. = as a general statement

amhlaobh
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:15 pm

Unread postby amhlaobh » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:40 am

*Alasdair* wrote:Cha bi mi a' coimhead - I will not be watching


Just a small note: it's cha bhì. Remember, "cha" lenites.

Níall Beag
Posts: 1334
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Chan eil gaidhlig agam agus cha bhi
Location: Dún Èideann, Alba
Contact:

Unread postby Níall Beag » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:33 am

Creid & Smaoinich:

English speakers are arrogant. We think we're all intellectuals.

For this reason, we say "I think" a lot, because we reckon thinking's intelligent. We don't like to say "I believe" much, because we believe that would make us look uncertain and irrational.

However, the rest of Europe are more laid back and self assured. They don't worry about coming across as unconfident. They are happy to say "we believe".

"Does John have a bike?"
English speaker: "I think so."
Other European: "I believe so."

You don't calculate whether John has a bike. You don't sit down and work it out. It's not an intellectual endeavour. You just have this vague recollecting of him wearing a hi-vis jacket and helmet.

Gaels use "creid" far more than English speakers use "believe", but use "smaoinich" more than most mainland Europeans, which is probably a result of us learners who keep trying to speak English even when we're not speaking English....

User avatar
Seonaidh
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:00 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Faisg air Gleann Rathais

Unread postby Seonaidh » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:59 pm

"Does John have a bike?"
English speaker: "I think so."
Other European: "I believe so."

You don't calculate whether John has a bike. You don't sit down and work it out. It's not an intellectual endeavour. You just have this vague recollecting of him wearing a hi-vis jacket and helmet.

Gaels use "creid" far more than English speakers use "believe", but use "smaoinich" more than most mainland Europeans, which is probably a result of us learners who keep trying to speak English even when we're not speaking English....

- happen it depends what seorsa English you're on about! Some say "happen", some say "Aa reckon swa like" - and some even say "I believe so".

But Lille Nils is probably generally ceart. F'rinstance, in the Welsh it would be usual to say "Fi'n credu fod un ganddo" or owt similar. I allus felt a little odd using "creidsinn", as nobody else was - s'pose they're all Manglots or something. Incidentally, that Welsh roughly translates as "Tha mi a' creidsinn gu bheil aon aige".