Leabhar ùr le William Lamb

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
amhlaobh
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:15 pm

Leabhar ùr le William Lamb

Unread post by amhlaobh » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:26 am

William Lamb, Scottish Gaelic ADVERTISEMENT

Speech and Writing: Register Variation in an Endangered Language (Cló Ollscoil na Banríona, Beul Feirste, £19.50)

Chunnic mi aig Fèis nan Leabhraichean ann an Dùn Èideann e.

Sgrìobh Raghnall MacIlleDhuibh mu dheidhinn:
http://news.scotsman.com/gaelic/Se-an-gnomhaire-a-dhearbhas.4232594.jp

Tha an Appendix A an gràmar slàn a dh'fhoillsich e o chionn beagan bliadhnaichean. (Am fear a th'agad a NCT tha mi a'smaoinicheadh!)



GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4499
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Unread post by GunChleoc » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:04 am

Saoilidh mi gum bu chòir dhomh leth-bhreac a cheannachd :blasda:
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:53 pm

From the back:
The book also presents a new morpho-syntactic grammar of contemporary spoken and written Scottish Gaelic,

But the Author's Note inside says:
... numerous corrections and revisions to the grammar had become desirable. Appendix 1 may thus be regarded as a second edition of Lamb 2002.

I don't have the earlier book, so I can't compare.

It wasn't available on the Comhairle nan Leabhraichean site, so I went to Amazon where it's available at a substantial discount.

faoileag
Maor
Posts: 1489
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 am

Unread post by faoileag » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:39 pm

It sounds as if you've now bought the book, Niall.

If so, can you tell us a bit more about it, especially what is meant in practice by the 'morpho-syntactic' claim?

Taing dhut ro-làimh.

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:05 am

"Morpho-syntactic" refers to the grammar of morphemes, and a morpheme is the smallest element of meaning in a language.

In practice it doesn't mean all that much, but it does mean there's good coverage of prefixes (but also see the introduction to MacBain's dictionary).

I've only had it a day, but a quick flick through it shows it covers some very deep concepts, but you'll need to have access to an on-line dictionary[*], cos it uses linguistic terminology I've never heard -- and I'm halfway through a language degree!

[*] Even better: typing "define:suppletion" will search various sites including universities for a definition of the term suppletion. Which is what I'm going to do now.

faoileag
Maor
Posts: 1489
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 am

Unread post by faoileag » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:48 am

A fun way to spend a Sunday! But no doubt it'll be a good investment, as regards both Gaelic and your degree.

I was curious as to how/whether he was avoiding the usual practice of applying Latin or even English-language grammar systems to Gaelic. ('new m-s grammar')

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:19 pm

Oh no.
I've just seen it.
The word.
The word.
Yes, that word.
I can't believe he used it.
William Lamb should be ashamed of himself.

faoileag
Maor
Posts: 1489
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 am

Unread post by faoileag » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:44 pm

Let me guess - 'infinitive'? 8-)


Though, to be serious, I think it can actually be perfectly helpful to use the word to compare or illustrate concepts; we should not assume we are the only 'intelligent' adult learners around and veto things in case they are too difficult to grasp / potentially misleading. :priob:

GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4499
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:51 pm

I have the first edition of the grammar and it's especially strong in the syntax section.

I have bought the new book as well but unfortunately I haven't had much time with it yet :(
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:24 pm

faoileag wrote:Let me guess - '*nf*n*t*v*'? 8-)
Wash your mouth out!!!!
Though, to be serious, I think it can actually be perfectly helpful to use the word to compare or illustrate concepts; we should not assume we are the only 'intelligent' adult learners around and veto things in case they are too difficult to grasp / potentially misleading. :priob:
My problem is that he uses it as a part-of-speech tag when marking out sentences word by word.

The difference between an "infinitive" and a "present participle" is the context, and as far as I'm concerned the word is one thing, not two different things of identical forms. I can understand the rationale behind it (cf the tagging of "waited" in English as "adjective" and "past participle") but it doesn't quite seem consistent (cf. nouns in both nominative and accusative position are tagged as "nominative" -- here one form, two usages, meaning by context, yet single tag).

The reason it confuses people is that it's not a natural distinction in Gaelic.
Intelligent people should stick with the most natural thing.
It isn't any more intelligent to use our vast brainpower inefficiently.

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:33 pm

I'm a bit confused by one thing in the grammar though -- he goes on about inflecting the dependent part of a noun string and then shows both the genetive and possessive (mo, do etc) construction, and I don't see how they're equivalent in this case, but... I'm confused, I'm away from the book for the week and I'm starting to develop an allergy to grammar study.... ;-)

Seonaidh
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:00 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Faisg air Gleann Rathais

Unread post by Seonaidh » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:58 pm

Níall Beag wrote:I'm a bit contused by one thing in the glamour trough -- he goes on about infecting the descendent part of a noon strong and then shows both the genital and obsessive (mo, do etc) destruction, and I don't see how they're equestrian in this chase, but... I'm diffused, I'm away from the cook for the week and I'm starting to develop an allergy to bramble jelly.... ;-)
- no, it's not a quote! What is a noun string? Do you inflect such things? Or conjugate, or decline, or what? It's not one of those awful things like "the sister of the father of the driver of the bus of the school", i.e. a genial chain (or fairly chuckleworthy, anyway)? I always thought syntax was PAYE for prostitutes. Morphology must be something to do with sci-fi, e.g shape-shifters. Anyway, isn;t a ninfinitive the same as a gift participle, e.g. "I like fishing", "I like to fish"? (not that I do...)
Seadh, carson a bhruidhinneas sinn air gràmar Gàidhlig anns a' Bheurla? Am bi sinn a' bruidhinn air gràmar Beurla anns a' Ghàidhlig?

GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4499
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Unread post by GunChleoc » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:53 am

Uill, bhruidhinn mise air gràmar Beurla 'sa Ghearmailtis nuair a dh'ionnsaich mi an cànan siud, agus an aon rud leis a' Phortagailis :priob:
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:10 pm

Seonaidh wrote:Seadh, carson a bhruidhinneas sinn air gràmar Gàidhlig anns a' Bheurla? Am bi sinn a' bruidhinn air gràmar Beurla anns a' Ghàidhlig?
Air sgaths nach eil cail fhios 'm dé na facail ceart Gàidhlig air móran. Tha an leabhar fhéin 'sa Bheurla....

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread post by neoni » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:34 pm


Post Reply