double-barreled verbs

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
clarsach
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double-barreled verbs

Unread post by clarsach » Tue May 19, 2009 5:47 pm

In the last 2 days, I've come across a couple of these: dèan dealbh (draw) and dèan ùrnaigh (pray).

How are these used? Is there a tha/ bha/ bhiodh in there, or just the two parts of the verb? And are the two parts of the verb split up in the sentence?

I.e.:

Dèan dealbh Niall craobh. Niall drew a tree.

Or: Tha Niall craobh dèan dealbh.
Or: Tha Niall dèan dealbh craobh.
Or: Dèan Niall craobh dealbh.



horogheallaidh
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Unread post by horogheallaidh » Tue May 19, 2009 7:44 pm

Rinn Niall dealbh de craobh - rinn is the past tense - Niall made/did a picture of a tree.

'dean' is used such as - dean seo - dean sin - do this do that - more of a command but defo not the past tense.

:)

clarsach
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Unread post by clarsach » Tue May 19, 2009 7:54 pm

Moran taing.

So (and I knew this had I been thinking tenses instead of wrapped up in sentence structure! :naire: ) what I wrote was Niall draws a tree. ?

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Unread post by neoni » Tue May 19, 2009 9:10 pm

what you have there is the root. the verbal noun is dèanamh

tha niall a' dèanamh dealbh de chraobh



with what are you learning?

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Re: double-barreled verbs

Unread post by Níall Beag » Tue May 19, 2009 10:11 pm

clarsach wrote:Dèan dealbh Niall craobh.
That's "a tree will draw Niall" ;-)

You're making this too complicated. It's no different from English.

We don't have a verb "to coffee" in English, so we "make coffee", and while our grandparents might have "bathed", we "have a bath". This isn't a double-barrelled verb or anything like that, it's a verb and a noun. Same in Gaelic. So just as verbs and nouns split up and move away from each other in English (I made my mother a nice cup of coffee, I had a nice, warm, sloppy, bubbly, scented bath).

It's that easy.

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Re: double-barreled verbs

Unread post by neoni » Tue May 19, 2009 10:18 pm

Níall Beag wrote:
clarsach wrote:Dèan dealbh Niall craobh.
That's "a tree will draw Niall" ;-)

nì craobh dealbh de niall

clarsach
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Unread post by clarsach » Wed May 20, 2009 4:34 am

neoni, I have gone through TYG, and am starting a second time through. I'm also using several resources on the internet.

Niall, I found "dèan dealbh" in the Gaelic-English dictionary as the entry for draw. So it appears to me they are saying the tr*nsl*t**n of 'draw' is 'dèan dealbh.' :?

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Unread post by Tearlach61 » Wed May 20, 2009 5:06 am

"Rinn Niall dealbh de craobh"

I would correct to:

"Rinn Niall dealbh de chraoibh."

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Unread post by GunChleoc » Wed May 20, 2009 7:38 am

clarsach wrote:So it appears to me they are saying the tr*nsl***** of 'draw' is 'dèan dealbh.' :?
That's what the dictionary entry will look like - you don't say "draw" literally, you say "make a picture", and that's what the gammar will make of it:

Tha mi a' dèanamh dealbh - I am making a picture

compare to:

Tha mi ag ithe ubhal - I am eating an apple.

Same thing.

Of course you will not find a dictionary entry for "ithe ubhal", but that's because English doesn't have a simple word for apple eating.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

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Unread post by faoileag » Wed May 20, 2009 9:45 am

Hi, Clarsach,

As I pointed out in your question about 'bi aig', what you find in the dictionary is the stem of the verb, roughly equivalent to the English concept 'infinitive', i.e. the 'to....' form of the verb. Think of it like this:

dèan = to do, to make
bi = to be
leugh= to read


You can't just use these forms unchanged to make a sentence . You have to reconstruct them into tenses in different ways, as you learn in TYG.

You will also find a second form in a G-E dictionary

dèan, deanamh
bi, bhith
leugh, leughadh


This second form, to keep it simple for now, is approximately the English 'ing form' if you put a' or ag (before vowels) before it.

Tha mi a' dèanamh= I am doing/making


The most useful verb form for a learner is this 'continuous' (= ongoing activity) structure

bi+ a'dèanamh = to be doing

So you get:

Present continuous tense: Tha mi a' dèanamh cofaidh / dealbh / ùrnaigh= I am making coffee / drawing a picture / praying

Past continuous tense: Bha mi a' leughadh = I was reading

Future continuous tense: Bidh mi ag òl cofaidh = I will be drinking coffee.

get your head round this before you go any further.


May I recommend the grammar-based site TAIC for verb tenses:

http://www.taic.btinternet.co.uk/taic.htm

The present continous tense (tha mi a' dèanamh etc) is here:

http://www.taic.btinternet.co.uk/PDF/Lesson1.PDF


You may also need to familiarise yourself with some basic grammatical terminology if you don't actually know that in English.

Here is brief overview to print out and keep:

http://www.bmf.org.uk/media//learningli ... 0Guide.pdf

It is for English, not Gaelic, but is a good starting point.


Good luck!

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Unread post by clarsach » Wed May 20, 2009 8:12 pm

GunChleoc wrote:
clarsach wrote:So it appears to me they are saying the tr*nsl***** of 'draw' is 'dèan dealbh.' :?
That's what the dictionary entry will look like - you don't say "draw" literally, you say "make a picture", and that's what the gammar will make of it:

Tha mi a' dèanamh dealbh - I am making a picture

compare to:

Tha mi ag ithe ubhal - I am eating an apple.

Same thing.

Of course you will not find a dictionary entry for "ithe ubhal", but that's because English doesn't have a simple word for apple eating.
This is the bi-lingual tr*nsl*t*ng dictionary, so they are giving the gaelic words for each entry, not the definition per se.

faolaig (sorry, I can't see your username from the editing window), thanks for all of that. That is exactly what I'm looking for. Although I once knew it very well, t's been over 10 years since I studied any grammar and structure at all, so a refresher course will be helpful. :)

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Unread post by Níall Beag » Fri May 22, 2009 1:03 pm

clarsach wrote:This is the bi-lingual tr*nsl***** dictionary, so they are giving the gaelic words for each entry, not the definition per se.
That doesn't make any difference.

As she said, there is no verb "to draw" -- you have to "make a picture". That is the only tr*nsl*t**n that there is, so that is the tr*nsl*t**n they give.

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Unread post by AlasdairBochd » Fri May 22, 2009 10:48 pm

dèan suidhe - sit down
no dèanaibh suidhe ma bhios tu modhail

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Unread post by clarsach » Wed May 27, 2009 8:24 pm

thanks for clarifying, Niall. I thought she was saying that was the definition, rather than that is the tr*nsl*t**n. My mistake. Please remember I'm only three months into this, and comparing it to what I know of English and German.

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Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu May 28, 2009 7:49 am

No worries! :D

When you have to do everything in writing, finding the right words sometimes takes a while, that's normal. Just keep asking until you get what you need.
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Na dealbhan agam

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