Grìomhair + smuanairt (ann an ceistean)

Ciamar a chanas mi.... / How do I say...
Neas Olc
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:12 am
Language Level: Briste
Location: A'Chuimrigh (à Toronto)

Grìomhair + smuanairt (ann an ceistean)

Unread post by Neas Olc » Thu May 21, 2009 1:49 am

Ciamar a chanadh tu "what is it for" no "what are you doing it for" (mar eisimpleir)? Am bi e mar "dè airson..." ("dè airson a tha e?"/ "co ris a tha thu a bruidhinn?" etc)? Cha chrèid mi gun do dh'ionnsaich mi mu seo ach às deidh dhomh ur scriobhadh air FNG tha mi smaoineachadh gum bitheadh e beagan mar a thoir mi barail.

(Duilich mar eil mi cho so-thuigseach)



GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4523
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Unread post by GunChleoc » Thu May 21, 2009 5:36 am

Carson a tha thu a' dèanamh seo?

what is it for can mean why? and then use can use carson as well.

When you mean it as e.g. what is it for, for the kitchen or the living room? I'm not 100% sure, cò dha a tha e, 's dòcha.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Tearlach61
Maor
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:30 am
Location: Juneau
Contact:

Unread post by Tearlach61 » Thu May 21, 2009 7:42 am

This is one of those situations where one winds up focusing on the idiom without looking at what the idiom really says.

This is where I think rather than asking how do you say this in that language, I'd imagine what would a native speaker say in that situation. That's where listening and reading as much as possible begins to pay off bacause you bypass the trap of tr*nsl*t*ng idiom.

In addition to what GhunChleoc said, I'd suggest "dè as coireach ..."

deaghnighean
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:33 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Glaschu

Unread post by deaghnighean » Thu May 21, 2009 9:32 am

Chanainse carson ;
Carson a tha e? What is it for
Carson a tha an inneal sin? What is that implement for
Cò airson a tha e? Who is it for
Carson a tha thu ga dhèanamh? Why are you doing it
Carson a tha thu a dèanamh sin? Why are you doing that

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread post by neoni » Thu May 21, 2009 9:58 am

dè as adhbhar...

akerbeltz
Rianaire
Posts: 1757
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 am
Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
Location: Glaschu
Contact:

Unread post by akerbeltz » Thu May 21, 2009 11:45 am

Gaelic also likes to invoke nouns where English uses a different sort of phrase.

For example:
dè an coltas a tha e? what is its likeness (is it like)?
dè an cuideam a th' ann? what is its weight (does it weigh)?
dè an àirde a tha e? what is it's height (how tall is it?

So even though I have no record, I'm fairly certain that dè am feum a th' ann? would be a good way of saying what is it for in the sense of what is its use?

Carson and however is also used in this sense as deaghnighean has pointed out:
Carson a tha e? What is it for?
Cò airson? What for? (for what purpose)

Tata

Am Mìcheal Eile

faoileag
Maor
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 am

Unread post by faoileag » Fri May 22, 2009 2:16 am

A couple more of that nature with useful structures

Dè cho fad 's a tha e? - how long is it?
Dè cho daor 's a tha e? - how expensive is it?
Dè cho tric 's a bhios thu ga dhèanamh? - how often do you do it?

Cò thusa? - who are you?
Cò iad na BPA? - Who/what are the Members of the Scottish Parliament?

Co ris a tha e coltach? - What's he/it like?
Co ris a tha thu ag èisteachd? - What are you listening to?
Co aig a tha e? - Whose is it?
Co às a thainig e? - Where did he/it come from?

(When there is a prepositional pronoun after Cò, e.g. 'ris', it loses its spoken emphasis and therefore its written accent. So I have always assumed anyway, but have not checked GOC... :spors: )

GunChleoc
Rianaire
Posts: 4523
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
Corrections: Please correct my grammar
Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
Contact:

Unread post by GunChleoc » Fri May 22, 2009 6:56 am

faoileag wrote:(When there is a prepositional pronoun after Cò, e.g. 'ris', it loses its spoken emphasis and therefore its written accent. So I have always assumed anyway, but have not checked GOC... :spors: )
Thanks for the pronunciation hint :D
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Níall Beag
Rianaire
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: Sruighlea, Alba
Contact:

Unread post by Níall Beag » Fri May 22, 2009 1:11 pm

"Carson" wasn't originally one word, it was có air son: literally "who/which on behalf-of ...?" -- "what for...?", essentially.
In English "What for...?" is almost always interchangeable with "Why...?" in questions.

eg. Why did you say that? <-> What did you say that for?

akerbeltz
Rianaire
Posts: 1757
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 am
Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
Location: Glaschu
Contact:

Unread post by akerbeltz » Fri May 22, 2009 2:24 pm

The interrogatives have a crazy history - here's a schematic I did while at un, just for fun...

Image

Neas Olc
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:12 am
Language Level: Briste
Location: A'Chuimrigh (à Toronto)

Unread post by Neas Olc » Wed May 27, 2009 3:55 am

có air son
It's that word order I was asking for (question word followed by preposition). This confirms what I thought was doable. Thanks.

horogheallaidh
Maor
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:49 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: An t-Eilean Dubh

Unread post by horogheallaidh » Wed May 27, 2009 9:50 pm

not entirely sure but is it not 'better' gaelic to say

co dha a tha e?

instead of-

co airson a tha e?

de do bharail?

neoni
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:57 pm
Corrections: I'm fine either way
Location: am badeigin

Unread post by neoni » Wed May 27, 2009 10:09 pm

cò airson is just the extended version of carson, it feels very stilted to me

but i'm just a neach-ionnsachaidh. what do i know

faoileag
Maor
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 am

Unread post by faoileag » Thu May 28, 2009 12:50 am

It always depends on the meaning.

The English 'for' is usually Gaelic 'do' when it means for a specific person, intended for him, as a gift to him etc.

'Airson' has more the idea 'for his/its sake, to help him/it'.

If you are talking about eg a book, an article, a programme, a present, and who it intended for, you would use 'Co dha'. (Who for?)

BUT

Who/what did they fight Culloden for? Who/what did they raise money for?
= for whose sake, so you need 'airson', not 'do'.

Post Reply