Page 1 of 2

An Uiridh

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:10 pm
by Mairead
Halò! Tha mi a' sgrìobhadh mu an uiridh, m-uiridh "gap". A lot happened in my gap year and instead of writing about it in English, I'm writing about it in Gaelic for some good language practise. I just wrote one of the sections, about music, and was hoping for some help correcting any mistakes I have made. (There are probably quite a few! I'm trying new things!) I will post one section at a time so it's not too overwhelming.

Dh'ionnsaich mi òranan Ghàidhlige: ' 'S i Mòrag', 'Tha Mi Sgìth', 'Fear a' Bhàta', agus òranan eile. Bha mi gan sheinn aig an tràigh air uairibh. Chaidh mi a bhùth-oibre mu òran Ghàidhlig ann an Cil Rìmhinn san Giblean. Dh'ionnsaich mi òranan ùra ri Mairead Bennett. Anns an òranan, sheinn sibh coltach ri eunlaith. Chaidh mi a chonsartan eile ann an Cil Rìmhinn cuideachd; chuala mi ceòl chruit-chòrda glè bhrèagha anns an Talla-ciùil Nas Oige.

Bha mise ann an dà chonsart. Cheangail mi ri an coisir Chil Rìmhinn ant-Sultain. Dh'ath-aithris sinn na h-uile Dihaoine anns an togalach fhiosaigs. Sheinn sinn Mesiah à sgrìobh Handel am Foghar. Cha robh mi a' tuigsinn na ainmean Breatannacha airson pongan, mar sin leugh mi leabhar airson teòrig-ciùil. 'S toil leam i mòran! Choimhlion sinn Mesiah ant-Samhainn. 'S i toil leam mòran! 'S toil leam seinn glè mhath.

Thòisich sinn a-rithist am Faoilleach. Sheinn sibh ceòl à sgrìobh Beethoven, an siansadh naodamh, agus ceòl à sgrìobh Paul Mealor mu an Ceusadh. Bha an ceòl nas doirbhe. Sheinn na soprano pongan glè àirde anns an Beethoven, agus tha an ceòl Mhealor glè sparragach. Dh'ath-aithris mi mòran. Choimhlion sinn san Giblean. Bha an consart glè fhada! Dh'ionnsaich mi mòran mu ceòl an uiridh.

I learned Gaelic songs: 'It Was Morag', 'I Am Tired', 'Boatman' and other songs. Sometimes I sang them on the beach. I went to a workshop about Gaelic song in St Andrews in April. I learned new songs with Margaret Bennett. In the songs, we sang like birds. I went to other concerts in St Andrews, too; I heard very lovely harpsichord music in the Younger Hall.

I myself was in two concerts. I joined the St Andrews Chorus in September. We rehearsed every Friday in the Physics building. We sang Handel's
Messiah in the autumn. I didn't understand the British names for music notes, so I read a book about music theory. I like it a lot! We performed Messiah in November. I liked it a lot! [I don't know how to do past tense for the 'is' verb]

We started again in January. We sang music by Beethoven, the 9th Symphony, and music by Paul Mealor about the Crucifixion. The music was more difficult. The sopranos sang very high notes in the Beethoven, and the Mealor music was very complex. I practised a lot. We performed in April. The concert was very long! I learned a lot about music this year.

Thanks for the help in advance! This has been great practise for my past tense but I definitely don't have the ins and outs of it yet, so I am happy to learn from any corrections. :)

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:50 am
by Seonaidh
òranan Ghàidhlige
air uairibh
Cil Rìmhinn san Giblean
Anns an òranan, sheinn sibh coltach ri eunlaith
Nas Oige
Cheangail mi ri an coisir Chil Rìmhinn ant-Sultain
Mesiah à sgrìobh Handel am Foghar
na ainmean Breatannacha
'S toil leam i mòran!
am Faoilleach
Sheinn sibh
mu an Ceusadh
anns an Beethoven
tha an ceòl Mhealor
san Giblean
Oh dear. I just spent an age giving the right forms of all these bits and it all went phut. Maybe somebody else will do it - or maybe you could work out what's wrong with each line above yourself.

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:02 am
by Mairead
Thanks for pointing out the parts with issues, and sorry that all your work disappeared. That can be so frustrating when the computer does that! I know that I have not figured out the consistent way to refer to the months/seasons (which is why they're up there; I found that confusing and tried to follow the models in my exercises), and it looks like I used "sibh" instead of "sinn" a few times. The other one that I see up there and really don't know how to do is the past tense of the " 'S toil leam" construction.

I see that some of the plural adjectives are up there, and I am not sure what I did wrong. I tried to follow the guidelines in my book, which said you add 'a' to the end of the adjective or 'e' if the last vowel is 'i'. Did you put 'Nas Oige' because it's a bit extra to tr*nsl*t* the surname 'Younger' or did I form it wrong? In the ones that have 'sheinn sibh', is it just that I did the sinn/sibh accidental switch or is there something else wrong with those parts?

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:33 pm
by faoileag
No time to do corrections, but a word or two about plurals.

The plural adjectives only add -a (or -e if slender) if they are one-syllable.
bailtean mòra
rathaidean cunnartach

Plural adjectives only lenite if the preceding noun ends slender.
balaich ghlice.
òrain Ghàidhlig
bailtean beaga

And noun plurals have various possible forms, e.g. òran > òrain, not òranan. Also learn the genitive and the plural when you learn a new word. You get a feel for them after a while.

Plural nouns beginning with a vowel take h- after na (the) in the nominative.
na h-òrain, na h-ainmean, na h-oileanaich.

Nach math a rinn thu, ge-tà! :moladh:
Didn't you do well, though!

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:01 am
by Seonaidh
Incidentally, what were those "British names" you were having trouble with? Do you, perhaps, hail from the far shores of Loch Atlantic? If so:-

note => semibreve
half note => minim
quarter note => crotchet
...and then what do you do? eighth.sixteen.thirty-second etc. notes? Whatever:-
half a crotchet is a quaver
- and then you get:-
semiquaver, demisemiquaver and hemidemisemiquaver.
It is rumoured that the CERN collider is currently trying to produce even shorter notes...

An seinn sibh (a' chòisir) sa Ghàidhlig idir?

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:12 am
by Mairead
A fhaoileag, thanks! I found the section in my book on plurals to be lacking, but my teacher said there are lots of different endings. I will write down the things you said in my grammar notes! :) And thanks, I have a lot of fun working out how to say things in Gaelic, surrounded by my notes and books. After writing all that I was starting to think in Gaelic, which is a good sign!

A Sheonaidh, yep, but even farther shores--Loch Michigan! After the first rehearsal in September when my conductor told the tenors to watch their quavers and I was absolutely lost, I took out a book on music theory and learned all the British ways. The toughest one to internalise was "quaver" because my brain wanted that to be a quarter note. The trick is that "semiquaver" is much easier to say than "sixteenth note" so you take it from there and pretty soon you've switched. I do find the American way easier when talking about rhythm, time signatures, etc but now I use the British names generally. (I still did break into a fit of giggles, though, when my conductor said in one breath, "They're not grace notes, they're demisemiquavers!")

Chan eil sinn air seinn sa' Ghàidhlig fhathast. Tha sinn air seinn ceòl sa' Bheurla agus sa' Ghearmailtis, agus seinnibh san Laideann cuideachd. 'S dòcha tha còisir Ghàidhlig ann an Cil Rìmhinn cuideachd.
We haven't sung in Gaelic yet. We have sung in English and German, and we will be singing in Latin too. Maybe there is a Gaelic choir in St Andrews too.

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:46 am
by Seonaidh
Chan eil mi a' creidsinn gu bheil - tha còisir Ghàidhlig ann an Dùn Dè agus ann am Peairt, ach chan eil tè ann san Rìoghachd.

Far a bheil mi fhìn a' fuireach, tha coisir ann agus seinnidh sinn sa Bheurla mar as àbhaist, ach tha sinn air beagan Gàidhlig a dhèanamh. An-dràsta tha càraid a dh'òrain Xhosa no Sotho no Zulu againn.

I don't think there is - there's a Gaelic choir in Dundee and in Perth, but there isn't one in the Kingdom.

Where I stay there's a choir and we usually sing in English, but we have done a wee bit of Gaelic. At present we've got a couple of songs in Xhosa, Sotho or Zulu.

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:40 am
by Mairead
'S toil leam gum bheil sibh a' seinn anns an cànanan sin! Am bheil do choisir anns a' Ghleann Rathais? No 'faisg air'?

I like that you sing in those languages! Is your choir in Glenrothes? Or nearby?

I have been trying to work out the issues highlighted in your post, a Sheonaidh. Here is your list again, and where I think I've figured out what's wrong I've tried to correct it, but the bold ones are ones I'm still not sure how to fix.
Seonaidh wrote:òranan Ghàidhlige --> òrain Ghàidhlig
air uairibh
Cil Rìmhinn san Giblean --> Cill Rìmhinn sa’ Ghiblean
anns an òranan, sheinn sibh coltach ri eunlaith --> anns na òrain, sheinn sinn coltach ri eunlaith
Nas Oige --> Nas Òige
Cheangail mi ri an coisir Chil Rìmhinn ant-Sultain --> Chlàraich mi an coisir Chill Rìmhinn san Sultain
Mesiah à sgrìobh Handel am Foghar --> Mesiah à sgrìobh Handel sa’ Fhoghar
na ainmean Breatannacha --> na ainmean Breatannach
teòrig-ciùil --> teòrig-chiùil
’S toil leam i mòran!
ant-Samhainn --> san Samhainn
am Faoilleach --> sa’ Fhaoilleach
Sheinn sibh --> Sheinn sinn
mu an Ceusadh --> mu an Ceusadh thimcheall
anns an Beethoven --> sa' Bheethoven
tha an ceòl Mhealor --> tha an ceòl aig Mealor
san Giblean --> sa' Ghiblean

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:30 am
by poor_mouse
air uairibh, bhùth-oibre - I think, these two forms are correct, but old-fashioned; maybe they are not used today, though Dwelly knows them.
uairibh - old Dative pl., oibre - old Gen. (>> obrach)

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:03 am
by Mairead
I see! The main dictionary I use is The New English-Gaelic Dictionary by Derick S. Thomson (Professor of Celtic, University of Glasgow), Gairm Publications, Glasgow 1981. Any word that's not in there or is of unclear usage, I look up on Am Faclair Beag. My other main source of spelling and vocabulary is my teacher, an elderly woman from Harris, who tends to use the old spellings.

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:12 am
by poor_mouse
You can see on the right side of 'Am Faclair Beag' pages the results from Dwelly, and they may be rather old-fashioned.

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:02 pm
by faoileag

òranan Ghàidhlige --> òrain Ghàidhlig
air uairibh (more common: uaireannan)
bhùth-oibre (more common: bùth-obrach)
Cil Rìmhinn san Giblean --> Cill Rìmhinn sa’ Ghiblean
anns an òranan, sheinn sibh coltach ri eunlaith --> anns na h-òrain, sheinn sinn coltach ri eunlaith
Nas Oige --> Nas Òige Talla Younger
Cheangail mi ri an coisir Chil Rìmhinn ant-Sultain --> Chlàraich mi an coisir Chill Rìmhinn san Sultain > Ghabh mi ballrachd ann an còisir ChR san t-Sultain
Mesiah à sgrìobh Handel am Foghar --> Mesiah à sgrìobh Handel sa’ Fhoghar > Messiah le Händel san Fhoghar le= by (an author etc)
na ainmean Breatannacha --> na h-ainmean Breatannach
teòrig-ciùil --> teòrig-chiùil (more common: teòraidh)
’S toil leam i mòran! Chòrd e/i rium gu mòr
NB: past of 'is' = 'bu' but it can also mean 'would', so 'bu toil leam' tends to get used for 'I would like'. 'Chòrd e/i rium = it pleased me = I enjoyed it. Gu mòr= greatly (adverb)
ant-Samhainn --> san Samhainn > san t-Samhain
am Faoilleach --> sa’ Fhaoilleach > san Fhaoilleach / san Fhaoilteach
Sheinn sibh --> Sheinn sinn
mu an Ceusadh --> mu an Ceusadh thimcheall > mun Cheusadh
anns an Beethoven --> sa' Bheethoven (probably OK, colloquially, as in English, but if in doubt, 'san fhear le Beethoven' - in the B. one.)
tha an ceòl Mhealor --> tha an ceòl aig Mealor > le Mealor
san Giblean --> sa' Ghiblean

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:08 am
by Seonaidh
Glay-va. Just one minor addendum - NO APOSTROPHE after "sa".
sa Ghiblean - etc.

As for the Younger Hall, it is highly unlikely that this hall was so named because it was the more recent of two halls (like, is there an "Older Hall" nearby?) It was more likely so named because a rich person with the surname Yonger funded it (or a good part of it), e.g. one of the Younger family who had breweries in Scotland. While I do not know, I would imagine that the origin of the surname "Younger" is similar to the German term "Junker", from "jung herr", meaning "young man" - typically, one of aristocratic birth but not the one who would inherit the title. While there may well be a standard method for tr*nsl*t*ng such a concept into Gaelic, (a) I'm not sure what it would be and (b), as a family surname with connotations only in its English form, it would probably be best - as Gull has done - to leave it alone (Talla Younger).

Yes - I'm with MC/DC (well, we did change our name to MDCC but we started out as the Markinch Community and District Choir) which is not a million miles from Gleann Rathais. But from the morn we're off till the end of Lùnastal.

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:25 am
by Mairead
Thanks so much, a fhaoileag! Ah, I think I finally understand the months and seasons formatting. (I had just forgotten that the 't' was part of the article.) My teacher is from Harris, and she uses the English names for most months so she didn't tell us how to format the Gaelic names (ie do you format it "in the" or "in" or leave prepositions out entirely). I see that you've put the umlaut on Handel's name. Is it standard practise in Gaelic to spell foreign names as they were in the original language, overriding the common English spelling and using characters not found in Gaelic?

A Sheonaidh, my grammar book clearly includes an apostrophe as part of the in the construction for nouns beginning with g as well as c, m, b and p. (The book is Teach Yourself Gaelic by Boyd Robertson and Iain Taylor, © 2003.) Why do you recommend leaving it off? Is this a grammatical difference or more just a common abbreviation? My teacher, from Harris, also uses the apostrophe.

As for the Younger Hall, it was named for someone called Younger. I wasn't sure about the convention, and I also thought it was kind of funny to tr*nsl*t* it as "younger" because it's one of the relatively newer buildings in that part of St Andrews (early 20th century). But I will change it from Nas Òige to Younger.

I have another question for some of the other sections of my gap year description I'm working on. Is there an adjective meaning 'fun' in Gaelic? My dictionary didn't have an entry for an adjective, only a noun. (I couldn't help but laugh...) Do you have to use a construction involving the noun spòrs, or is there an adjective I haven't found? Or perhaps a verb equivalent to the Spanish 'divertirse'? For example, I'd like to say "It was peaceful and fun" or "It was a fun party" and I'm not sure how. I think it is also more common in American English to use 'fun' as an adjective versus noun than in British English, so I'm a bit confused as to how to approach the usage in Gaelic.

I have a short section on the weather, with just a few questions:
- Is it all right to say 'aig an grian-stad an t-samhraidh' for 'on the summer solstice' or is there a better preposition?
- To say I didn't see darkness for many days can I say 'Chan fhaca mi dorchadas airson mòran latha'?
- I am not sure about this sentence, since it got a bit complicated: Bha an seasamh Albannach mun h-aimsir glè droil leam oir chan eil i glè fhuar sa' Gheamhradh, ach tha iad a' creidsinn gum bheil i fuar. The Scottish attitude about the weather was very frustrating for me because it is not very cold in winter, but they believe it is cold. (Please note that I am not trying to stir up controversy with this statement... it's just an honest experience I had!)

Thanks so much for all of your help! It is really helping me improve my Gaelic! Then maybe I can get to the point where I branch out of the bilingual section....!

Re: An Uiridh

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:48 pm
by Seonaidh
You write "anns a' bhùth", e.g., for "in the shop" Note THERE IS an apostrophe in the FULL FORM (anns a')

But if you abbreviate anns a' to sa there is NO APOSTROPHE - "sa bhùth".

Check your Robasdan/Mac an Tàilleir - you will find that what I have said is, indeed, the case.

Maybe the problem with "fun" is that it's not an adjective in English. Bear in mind that one feature of English is to press various types of word (nouns, prepositions, whatever) into use as different types of words: I mean, just because Shakespeare once wrote "But me no buts!", does that mean that "but" is a verb and a noun as well as a conjunction? Likewise with stuff like "we had a fun day", which is actually a shorter way of saying something like "our day was full of fun". And it doesn't even mean the same as "we had a funny day", does it? So what you really need to do is to think "what would an appropriate English adjective be in place of fun?", or alternatively just rephrase the sentence. Maybe you were wanting to say something like "we enjoyed ourselves" - but actually put it as "we had a fun time". Tronslotion is never THAT straightforward!