Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Na tha a' tachairt ann an saoghal na Gàidhlig agus na pàipearan-naidheachd / What's happening in the Gaelic world and the newspapers
seoltagaelic
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Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:01 am

Tha mi air pròiseact pearsanta a thòiseachadh air Gab far a bheil mi a’ roinn taghaidhean bho naidheachdan an t-saoghail le eadar-theangachadh Gàidhlig de às-earrannan.

Bho seo a-mach, bidh mi cuideachd a’ chur eileamaidean briathrachais fo gach artaigil.

Tha trì amasan agam:

1. eachdraidh de thachartasan làithreach cudromach a chumail air sealladh an t-saoghail (sa mhòr-chuid a rèir meadhanan sa Bheurla);

2. làthaireachd Gàidhlig a stèidheachadh air Gab;

3. gus luchd-ionnsachaidh Ghàidhlig a chuideachadh gus am briathrachas aca a leasachadh le briathrachas a tha sònraichte do phrìomh chuspairean naidheachdan san t-saoghail.

Tha mo chunntas aig an t-seòladh a leanas: https://gab.com/seoltagaelic

[I have launched a personal project on Gab where I share selections from the world news along with Gaelic translations of excerpts. From now on, I'm also adding vocabulary elements under each article. I have three objectives: 1. to keep track of important current events on the world scene (mainly according to the English media); 2. to add a Gaelic presence on Gab; 3. to help learners of the Gaelic language acquire vocabulary specific to the major topics in the news. My account is at the following address. https://gab.com/seoltagaelic]



faoileag
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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by faoileag » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:25 pm

Mòran taing airson seo a dhèanamh agus an ceangal a cho-roinneadh an seo.
Bidh e feumail le cinnt. :-)

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:43 pm

Tha seo inntinneach. Nach cuir thu a' Ghàidhlig air thoiseach na Beurla? Feumaich mi briogadh air "Read More" 2 thuras gu tric mus nochd an t-eadar-theangachadh agad.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:41 pm

Taing airson an dà fhreagairt agaibh.

@GunChleoc Seadh, cuiridh mi a' Ghàidhlig air thoiseach. Bha mi dìreach airson tagradh a dhèanamh do luchd-èisteachd nas motha. Cruthaichidh mi cunntas eile le Beurla air thoiseach.

Cuideachd taing @faoileag. Seadh, tha mi a’ smaointinn gu bheil mòran bhuannachdan a bhith a’ dhèanamh seo. An toiseach, 's e obair ùine a th’ann (rannsachadh, a’ toirt geàrr-chunntas, eadar-theangachadh + briathrachas). Chan urrainn dhomh ach 2-3 naidheachd a phostadh gach latha, agus tha mi a’ taghadh an fheadhainn as cudromaiche nam bheachd. Bidh mi ag ath-sgrùdadh agus a’ dèanamh coimeas eadar mòran stòran mheadhanan le rannsachadh a rinn daoine eile.

Aig an aon àm, tha e gu math feumail dhomh fhein. Bidh mi a’ cumail sùil air na tachartasan fìor chudromach a tha a’ nochdadh an-dràsta air sealladh an t-saoghail (mar a dh’fhaodadh sibh a bhith mothachail). Le bhith dà-chànanach, dh’fhaodadh gum biodh an obair seo feumail do luchd-èisteachd tòrr nas motha. A bharrachd air an sin, tha e a’ toirt orm mo sgilean eadar-theangachaidh a chleachdadh fhad ‘s a tha mi a’ cuideachadh dhaoine eile leis a’ bhriathrachas a gheibhear anns na naidheachdan.

Aig àm air choreigin, b’urrainn dhomh post a chuir chun fhòram seo cruinneachadh de mo stòr-fhacal agus teacsa a chaidh a thoirt a-mach às na naidheachdan.

Bidh mi a’ cur fàilte air beachdan sam bith, agus cumaidh mi fios ribh.

[Thanks for both your replies. @GunChleoc Yes, I will put Gaelic first. I just wanted to appeal to a larger audience. I will create another account with English first. Also thanks @faoileag. Yes, I think that there are many benefits in doing this. First, it is a time-consuming task (researching, summarizing, tr*nsl*t*ng + vocabulary). I can only post 2-3 news items a day, and I choose the most important ones in my opinion. I review and compare many media sources with research done by others. At the same time, I find it very useful for myself too. I keep track of the very important events that are currently unfolding on the world scene (as you might be aware). Being bilingual, this work might also be useful for a much larger audience. In addition, it makes me practice my tr*nsl*t**n skills while helping others with the vocabulary found in the news. At some point, I could post to this forum a compilation of my vocabulary and text excerpted from the news. I welcome any comments, and I’ll keep you updated.]

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by Níall Beag » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:08 am

seoltagaelic wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:41 pm
Being bilingual, this work might also be useful for a much larger audience.
Ach tha cunnart ann nach bi.
Who exactly is your principle target audience? Trying to appeal to too many people at once opens up the possibility of putting them all off.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:17 am

@Nìall Beag

Chan eil mi a’ dèanamh dragh idir. Thòisich mi am pròiseact seo dhomh fhìn an toiseach. Ghabh e cumadh thairis air bliadhna. Tha Beurla aig a’ mhòr-chuid de dhaoine air Gab, agus chan eil mòran de luchd-labhairt na Ghàidhlig. Cha do lorg mi am fòram seo ach o chionn ghoirid. An uair sin bha mi a’ smaoineachadh gum biodh e inntinneach don choimhearsnachd air fhad. Sin mar a thachair e. A-nis, tha mi dìreach air dreach Gàidhlig ùr de mo dhuilleag a chrìochnachadh dhaibh. Meal!

https://gab.com/seoltagaidhlig

[I'm not worrying at all. I started this project for myself at first. It took shape over a year. Most people understand English on Gab, and there are not many Gaelic speakers. I have only recently discovered this forum. Then I thought it might be of interest to the whole community. That's how it turned out. Now I've just finished a new Gaelic version of my page for you. Enjoy! https://gab.com/seoltagaidhlig]
Last edited by seoltagaelic on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by Níall Beag » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:49 pm

I'm going to be blunt here.

I see no value in any site that uses Google tr*nsl*t* to generate "Gaelic" content. You've manually removed some of the most egregious and obvious errors, but clearly (given that even your posts here are run through GT), you simply don't have good enough Gaelic to spot when Google translates English idiom completely.

Putting a list of useful vocabulary that is ripped straight from GT without verification in a dictionary is misleading and harmful to other learners (I'm thinking in particular "prionnsa crùn" here).

What you're doing may be useful to you in your learning process, but you're not presenting it honestly, which has the potential to lead to other learners picking up the language wrong.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by Níall Beag » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:58 pm

How about looking at this the other way round.

You could start reading the news at BBC naidheachdan and write English-language summaries of what you read. People who aren't actively interested in learning Gaelic might find it interesting to see what Gaelic speakers are interested in, and learners would then be able to use the summaries to help them read the articles.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:45 pm

@Nìall Beag,

Chan eil seo ceart gu leòr. Tha e uamhasach gun do thàinig an rud seo GT air loidhne. A-nis, chan urrainn earbsa a bhith ann an cuideigin a tha a’ dèanamh fìor adhartas leis a’ Ghàidhlig. 'S e oidhirp gu math onarach a tha mi a’ dhèanamh, agus tha mi a’ cumail sùil air na rudan agam. Tha mi misneachail mu mo phròiseact. Ma tha ceartachadh sam bith agaibh ri mholadh, tha fàilte oirbh.

I would like to clear that up for the record. I may make mistakes, but I correct myself when I find one. I'm not just putting everything through GT. Here's an example. Put this text (from my news) into GT, you'll see what garbage it outputs.

Thuit toradh Roinn an Ionmhais gu ìrean ìosal, le ìsleachadh iomlan fo 1% airson a' chiad turas ann an eachdraidh, fhad 's a bha cogadh prìsean ola a' dèanamh èiginn air a stiùireadh le bhìoras nas miosa ann am margaidhean na cruinne. Bha an ceum as ùire air a chumhachdachadh a-mach le cogadh prìsean iomlan am measg nan riochdairean ola as motha san t-saoghal. Thuit ola 31% anns a' chall as miosa bho Chogadh a' Chamais nuair a spreadh sabaid nam prìsean. Cuiridh seo ris a' chuideam sìos air atmhorachd, far an robh an Cùl-stòr Feadarail a' strì gus an targaid 2% aca a choileanadh mu thràth.

Treasury yields tumbled to record lows, with the entire curve below 1% for the first time in history, as an oil-price war worsened a virus-driven crisis in global markets. The latest step was fueled by an all-out price-war among the world’s largest producers. Oil fell 31% in the worst loss since the Gulf War as price fight erupted. This will add to the downward pressure on inflation, where the Federal Reserve was already struggling to meet its 2% target.

VOCABULARY / STÒR-FHACAL
fell,dropped: thuit; to fall/drop: tuit /tuhdʲ/
yield (in finance),issue,output,results: toradh /tɔrəɣ/
Treasury,finance department: Roinn an Ionmhais /inivəʲs/
low levels: ìrean ìosal /iəsəL/
total: iomlan /imiLan/
degradation,reduction,depression,decline,drop: ìsleachadh /iːʃləxəɣ/
war: cogadh /kogəɣ/
price war: cogadh prìsean /prʲiːʃan/
worsened: a' deanamh [...] nas miosa
crisis,distress: èiginn /eːgʲɪNʲ/
driven by: air a stiùireadh le
virus: bhìoras
global markets: margaidhean na cruinne /krɯNʲə/
step: ceum /kʲeːm/
latest,newest: as ùire
powered,fueled: air a chumhachdachadh /ũ.əxgəxgəɣ/
oil producers: riochdairean ola
largest in the world: as motha san t-saoghal
The Gulf War: Cogadh a' Chamais
erupt,burst,explode: spreadh
fight: sabaid /sabɪdʲ/
pressure,weight: cuideam /kudʲəm/
inflation: atmhorachd /ahdvərəxg/
Federal Reserve (The): An Cùl-stòr Feadarail


I've checked again for "crown prince", and can't find the correct tr*nsl*t**n in any dictionary. Until I find the correct form, "Prìonnsa Chrùin" sounds okay to me. Some would have just put the English word. Clearly, there will be terminology with which I am not familiar. I welcome any help, and will make corrections.

By the way, how come you're not writing in Gaelic? It might be of help to everyone. As for "the other way around", I'm already reading news on BBC Alba.
Last edited by seoltagaelic on Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by akerbeltz » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:17 pm

crown-prince = rìgh-damhna

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by Níall Beag » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:37 am

seoltagaelic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:45 pm
I would like to clear that up for the record. I may make mistakes, but I correct myself when I find one. I'm not just putting everything through GT. Here's an example. Put this text (from my news) into GT, you'll see what garbage it outputs.
You are not just putting everything through GT, but I see plenty of evidence that you are putting everything through GT and then trying to correct it manually.

Here's the problem: anyone whose Gaelic is good enough to correct a GT tr*nsl*t**n would be quicker just writing in Gaelic in the first place.
I've checked again for "crown prince", and can't find the correct tr*nsl*t**n in any dictionary. Until I find the correct form, "Prìonnsa Chrùin" sounds okay to me.
But it's worse than that. Sometimes you have "Prionnsa a' Chrùin" and sometimes "Prionnsa Crùn". Why sometimes one and sometimes the other? Well, when I run your English summary through GT, any time it gives me Prionnsa a' Chrùin, that's what you've got, and any time it gives Prionnsa Crùn, that's what you've got.
Some would have just put the English word. Clearly, there will be terminology with which I am not familiar. I welcome any help, and will make corrections.
You would be better putting the English in. At least that way you wouldn't be presenting Google tr*nsl*t*'s errors as a model of Gaelic.
By the way, how come you're not writing in Gaelic? It might be of help to everyone. As for "the other way around", I'm already reading news on BBC Alba.
I'm writing in English because it's difficult to gauge your comprehension of Gaelic when you push everything through Google tr*nsl*t*. The clues I've been able to extract from your corrections of GT suggest that you are at a very low level. I want to be understood, so I'm writing in English.

I realise that from where you're sitting it looks like I'm just being a grumpy old sod, but I'm afraid I can't find a way to be any more constructive. I don't personally see any value in your page to the public. If I wanted to help, writing my own site would be quicker than correcting yours.

And I also don't see offering specific corrections as particularly helpful to you either -- without an understanding of your current level of Gaelic, it's impossible to pitch corrections at a level you'd be ready to understand.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:06 pm

@Níall Beag,

I would really appreciate your Gaelic. I asked because (I did not read everything) for what I saw, it seemed that you weren't using it that much in the forums. Just a first impression. For now let's use English, but I look forward to exchanging in Gaelic with some people here.

I appreciate and respect your opinion, which I understand is from your point of view. I also respect your time, and won't keep on with the current exchange pattern. If there could be an opportunity for a fresh start, you're welcome.

I have to rectify the facts one last time for the record. From my point of view, I have to say, with all due respect, you've been overguessing and trying too hard. I haven't tried to be difficult. I'm quite easy, quite friendly.

As for my Gaelic, I have to say, I have a fair/decent level of ease. Not a native speaker, as my family lost the language, but fairly advancing, I'd say. I've always made my phrases myself--I wouldn't use Gaelic otherwise--and it's been for years before that online tr*nsl*t*r even came out. You might have had this perception because I've been trying to more or less conform to the English text while tr*nsl*t*ng. For sure, I make mistakes and search for specific vocabulary, but I improve. By the way, I don't think of my Gaelic as being so bad at all.

As for, specifically, the word Crown Prince (now, it's 'rìgh-damhna' thanks to @akerbeltz), I was unsure how it should be written, whether Chrùin or a' Chrùin. No actual correlation with your test in GT, sorry. Moreover, this wasn't on the same day, and I wasn't thinking too much about it. I did not even think that it might be a completely different word. There is nothing more to it.

As for my project, there is a background history about how it came out that way. I have long thought whether to do it or not, but I wanted/needed to do such work one way or another. I chose this format given the limited amount of work that I'm able to do in my spare time each day. I also keep a backup copy offline. The major part of the time I spend is not writing, but watching, researching, understanding. My daily selections are a small byproduct. I'm open-sourcing them, if others want to read them or even contribute. It's a grassroots effort. The language is important, it's from the heart. I wish my Gaelic was already great. I'm working on it. Moreover, from what I know on my part, there is value much more than the words. This will become apparent at some point.

Làtha math agaibh agus tìoraidh ma tha!

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:14 pm

@Nìall Beag,

I am still thinking about your advice though. Before @GunChleoc asked for it, I did not have a page with Gaelic first. I could just undo that, and put my Gaelic translations as an exercise after the English text, as it was before. I really did not intend to make my Gaelic pose as a model at first. But if I get comments that the version with Gaelic first might still be of use, I could leave it too.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:23 pm

I will wait until Monday for any comments as to keeping the new version of my page with the Gaelic text on top. Otherwise, I will be cancelling it, and keeping only the English-first version at it was previously.

I would suggest that everyone take the following into consideration. There could be an interest in developing more samples of world-stage news coverage in Gaelic than what is found at present in written form on bbc/naidheachdan. I am willing to collaborate in a language review process on this forum.

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Re: Seòlta Gaelic / Newswatch on Gab

Unread post by seoltagaelic » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:43 am

Is fheàrr Gàidhlig bhriste na Gàidhlig sa chiste.
[Broken Gaelic is better than dead Gaelic.]

"It is definitely better to use Gaelic, even if it isn’t fluent, or perfect grammatically. Better this than the language dying. For learners, it is good to bear in mind that any effort is worthwhile. Of course, the ideal would be to get people using Gaelic as much as possible, which ought to lead to fluency."

https://sgribhisg.tumblr.com/post/18167 ... 0idhlig-sa

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