Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

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Thrissel
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Thrissel » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:42 am

*Alasdair* wrote:'s e mì-mhodh a tha is coireach.
So, nuair a thaghas iadsan an cànan anns a bhios iad a' bruidhinn 's e mì-mhodh, nuair a thaghas tusa an cànan anns a bhios iad a' bruidhinn air an son tha e ceart gu leòr?



*Alasdair*
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by *Alasdair* » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:21 am

Thrissel wrote:
*Alasdair* wrote:'s e mì-mhodh a tha is coireach.
So, nuair a thaghas iadsan an cànan anns a bhios iad a' bruidhinn 's e mì-mhodh, nuair a thaghas tusa an cànan anns a bhios iad a' bruidhinn air an son tha e ceart gu leòr?
Nan robh mi ag innse dhaibh gun dh'fheumadh iad a' Ghàidhlig a chleachadh, 's e mì-mhodh a bhiodh ann. Ach, ma bhios mi a' feuchainn mo dhicheall cànan, a th' aig an dithis againn gu ìre mhath, a chleachdadh agus 's iad a tha gam fhreagairt gu tur sa Bheurla 's ag ràdh rium "You shouldn't be wasting your time learning Gaelic", tha diofar mhòr ann. Turas sa Choop, sa Chaol, bha tè aig an till a' bruidhinn na Gàidhlig dha caraid, ach nuair a dh'ionnsaich an tè gur e luchd-ionnsachaidh a bh' anns mo charaid thionndadh ise dhan a' Bheurla gu math abruptly. There is nothing wrong with speaking to somebody in a language that you both have and expecting to get a reply in said language - that is the way it works in any other language after all.

Again, this seems to only be an issue with Gaelic and French speakers*. If you can't do it properly, don't try. Nise, chan eil a h-uile daoine mar seo, ach tha mòran dhaibh ann ann an "Saoghal na Gàidhlig".

*Out of the various language groups I have conversed with.

Neas Olc
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Neas Olc » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:39 am

There is nothing wrong with speaking to somebody in a language that you both have and expecting to get a reply in said language - that is the way it works in any other language after all.
Not in Québec is doesn't.

S'toil leis na Québécois freagairt ann am Beurla fiu' ri daoine aig a bheil Fraingis an ìre mhath fileanta, cho fad's a tha fhios aca gu bheil Beurla aca. An turas deireannach a chaidh mi ann cha do tachair seo dhomh cò dhiugh...cho fad's nach canainn facal Beurla nuair a bhitheadh iad ag eisteachd! Airson an adhbhar seo (agus iomadh adhbran eile) bithidh a'mhòr chuid den Canadaich Anglophonaich ag ionnsachadh na dualchainnt Eòrpaich. Chan eil agam ri ràdh nach eil seo a cuideachadh stàit na cànan Ceibeagaich.
Turas sa Choop, sa Chaol, bha tè aig an till a' bruidhinn na Gàidhlig dha caraid, ach nuair a dh'ionnsaich an tè gur e luchd-ionnsachaidh a bh' anns mo charaid thionndadh ise dhan a' Bheurla gu math abruptly.
Mar a thuairt mi tha rudan mar seo gu math àbhaisteach ann an Canada.

An Gobaire2
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by An Gobaire2 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:12 pm

Ged nach eil mi a' dol gu tur an aghaidh na tha Alasdair agus Lewis ag ràdh, saoilidh mi gur ann a tha iad ro luath a bhith a' gabhail orra gur e dìmeas dhaibh fhèin a th' anns a' chùis seo.

Can, sa Cho-op ann an Caol Loch Aillse. 'S e àrainneachd Beurla a th' ann le Goill sa mhòr-chuid far a bheil corra Ghàidheal às an àite ag obair ann. Mar sin, ged a thòisich Gàidheal air Lewis fhreagairt ann an Gàidhlig, bhiodh an àrainneachd sin a' bualadh air a mhisneachd le uiread de dhaoine mun cuairt aig nach eil a' Ghàidhlig.

'S e nàdar dhaoine a bhith a' dol leis a' mhòr-chuid, a' dol leis an treud mar a chanas iad.

Neas Olc
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Neas Olc » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:24 am

'S e nàdar dhaoine a bhith a' dol leis a' mhòr-chuid, a' dol leis an treud mar a chanas iad.
Ach an ne leisgeul math a th'ann an sin? Lemmings/idiocy by majority mar a chanas iad...tha a'mhòr chuid air mòran olc a dhèanamh san t-saoghal gu eachdraidheil...

Níall Beag
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Níall Beag » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:22 am

Lewis91 wrote:Cultural differences? Chan e dùthach eile th'ann am Peairt.
Ach 's e cànan eile a th' anns a' Ghàidhlig.
Uill seadh, AlasdairBochd, chan eil mo bhlas cho math ri blas fileantachd, agus cha bhi e a chaoidh, o chionns nach e fileantachd a th'annam. 'S urrainn dha daoine mo thuigsinn, agus 's e sin an rud as cudromaiche.
If being understood is the most important thing, let's stick to English, because we all understand it better.

But he makes a good point. It's amazing how some little "foreignisms" can really jar with people who aren't used to speaking to learners.

For example, saying you're not fluency, when you mean you're not fluent....

(Not that my Gaelic's much good either, mind, hence all this English....)

GunChleoc
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by GunChleoc » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:57 pm

Seo cunntas bho chuideigin a tha airson a bhith taiceil do luchd-ionnsachaidh:
McEWAN-FUJITA, EMILY (2010): 'Ideology, affect, and socialization in language shift and revitalization: The experiences of adults learning Gaelic in the Western Isles of Scotland', Language in Society 39, dd. 27–64. wrote:1 Flora: There’s this day this lady came in [to the bank], and, she– I think– if I remember
2 rightly she was a doctor, I can’t remember where she was from. But ((pause))
3 maybe it’s just making an assumption when people come in the door, and, you’ve
4 seen the {people walk} (_______), and you think, they’ll only have English
5 anyway, so, I don’t know whether it was that, that was on the brain but, this
6 particular lady had Gaelic. And she must have either, she must have learned the
7 language, and she was ((laughter started)) fairly proud of having I think, and she
8 was trying to talk to me in Gaelic, I couldn’t ((laughter ended)) really talk to her
9 in Gaelic, like, I couldn’t. My brain would just not (________) it, I was speaking
10 to her in English, all the time, didn’t matter what she said, I was... ((speech
11 dissolved in a laugh)). And I think, this is odd , you know. Because I knew fine,
12 what I– I was wanting to do, but I– ((pause))
13 EM: Which was to speak Gaelic?
14 Flora: Uh huh, but– it just didn’t happen. And she was almost out the door before I
15 could– before the brain just switched over and ((pause))
16 EM: You were able to?
17 Flora: Yeah.
18 EM: Was she mad?
19 Flora: No, she wasn’t, but she must have thought it really odd (#513).
Nuair a tha thu air ionnsachadh bhon ghlùn gu bheil e gu tur mì-mhodhail a bhith a' bruidhinn sa Ghàidhlig do choigrich no incomers, chan eil e furasta faighinn seachad air. Feumaidh sinn uile a bhith foighidneach ri chèile.

Tha e fior co-dhiù nach eil an giùlan seo a' cuideachadh luchd-ionnsachaidh no staid na Gàidhlig nach eilear a' bruidhinn sa Ghàidhlig ann an suidheachaidhean poblach no ann an coimhearsnachdan measgaichte. Seo cnag na cùise, ciamar a gheibh sinn seachad air?
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam

Gordon Wells
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Gordon Wells » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:33 pm

GunChleoc wrote:
... Feumaidh sinn uile a bhith foighidneach ri chèile.

Tha e fior co-dhiù nach eil an giùlan seo a' cuideachadh luchd-ionnsachaidh no staid na Gàidhlig nach eilear a' bruidhinn sa Ghàidhlig ann an suidheachaidhean poblach no ann an coimhearsnachdan measgaichte. Seo cnag na cùise, ciamar a gheibh sinn seachad air?
Le foighidinn, mar a thuirt sibh, agus le tuigse. Chan eil e furasta, ach chan eil e fìor nach gabh a dhèanamh idir.

Thrissel
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Thrissel » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:51 pm

Neas Olc wrote:
There is nothing wrong with speaking to somebody in a language that you both have and expecting to get a reply in said language - that is the way it works in any other language after all.
Not in Québec is doesn't.
Neither it does in Southern Bohemia. It's not rare to meet visiting descendants of Czech emigrants to Austria here. If they start speaking in Czech to somebody who judges from the visitor's speech that they are better in German that the visitor is in Czech, nine times out of ten they switch to German.
*GunChleoc* wrote:Nuair a tha thu air ionnsachadh bhon ghlùn gu bheil e gu tur mì-mhodhail a bhith a' bruidhinn sa Ghàidhlig do choigrich no incomers, chan eil e furasta faighinn seachad air.
And I remembered another thing. One Steinbeck's character,a Chinese servant in turn of the 20th century US, says this:
“I know it’s hard to believe, but it has happened so often to me and to my friends that we take if for granted. If I should go up to a lady or a gentleman, for instance, and speak as I am doing now, I wouldn’t be understood. Pidgin they expect, and pidgin they’ll listen to. But English from me they don’t listen to, and so they don’t understand it.”
Seems far-fetched but I did experience similar things. Including myself, watching a French TV music channel, never expecting a Czech song, thus when they did give one it only began to dawn upon me that I was listening to my first language when the singer was well into the second stanza.

Lewis91
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Lewis91 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:53 pm

Ok Níall Beag, rinn mi mearachd bheag, one letter. Tha mi air a bhith ag ionnsachdadh air mo cheann fhèin, rudeigin nach eil furasda dhomh idir, tha mi fhathast a' stri leis an spelling. Dè na mearachdan eile a rinn mi? Agus, mas e do thoile, gun a bhith schnidey mu dheidhinn.

Gràisg
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Gràisg » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:08 pm

A bheil duine sam bith ann a sheo seachad air mearachdan? Saoilidh mi nach eil. Ma tha thu airson Gàidhlig a sgrìobhadh nì thu mearachdan ach feumaidh tu a chumail a' dol leis. Sin thu fhèin Lewis, cum ort a charaid.

Níall Beag
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Re: Daoine le Gàidhlig bho thùs

Unread post by Níall Beag » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:55 pm

Lewis91 wrote:Ok Níall Beag, rinn mi mearachd bheag, one letter. Tha mi air a bhith ag ionnsachdadh air mo cheann fhèin, rudeigin nach eil furasda dhomh idir, tha mi fhathast a' stri leis an spelling. Dè na mearachdan eile a rinn mi? Agus, mas e do thoile, gun a bhith schnidey mu dheidhinn.
As I said, I'm rubbish at Gaelic too -- there's no attempt at one-upsmanship in there, and you could just as easily point at my mistakes if I wasn't being an abject coward and writing in English.

But I know from extensive personal experience with learners of English that even little things like that can turn into right little headtwisters. Silly little things like "I'm going for a swimming" just jar and grate and that's just a fact of life.

No-one is under any obligation to speak to us learners anyway, so we have no right to moan if they chose not to.

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