Vocative or no?

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GSD4ME
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Vocative or no?

Unread post by GSD4ME » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:31 pm

As a newbie, something is confusing me here. Using Duolingo to learn Gaelic (as well as my father's books!) why is it
Madhainn mhath A charaid (my capital A) but Madhainn mhath Anndra (no a)? Or is the course incorrect?
sorry - a secondary question as I just encountered it on the online course
Chan eil Anndra ceart gu leòr.
The speaker says KERT but if you click on the single word it is pronounced KERSHT, the latter being what I always heard my mother say, along with sagARSHT, etc Is there a syntactical/semantic reason for the change of pronounciation for this simple case or is it something that requires a lot more delving into with Gaelic that goes beyond a simple reason/answer here?



GunChleoc
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Re: Vocative or no?

Unread post by GunChleoc » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:42 pm

Anndra starts with a vowel, so the a is dropped. Gaelic grammar depends on sounds a lot ;)

Regarding the pronunciation, that sounds like dialectal variation to me.
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GSD4ME
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Re: Vocative or no?

Unread post by GSD4ME » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:36 pm

Many thanks for this - after I posted it, it struck me that the leading vowel in Anndra could be the reason and your answer confirms that, but my simple mind thought that t- or similar may have been planted there to allow the "a" to be used as standard. Obviously not! Something else for me to remember. I'd forgotten how time-consuming language learning was, especially when it is done without access to native speakers to practice with.

GunChleoc
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Re: Vocative or no?

Unread post by GunChleoc » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:11 am

The t- before vowels is used by nominative singular masculine only - it's actually a rare pattern. I have written an article on the forms grouped by sound pattern rather than the traditional "nominative singular masculine first" approach. Maybe looking at it from this different angle will help.

https://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/index.php?page=149

I think it's actually beneficial to focus on the genitive first, because the article pattern will also tell you the gender of the noun.
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Níall Beag
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Re: Vocative or no?

Unread post by Níall Beag » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:23 pm

GSD4ME wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:31 pm
Chan eil Anndra ceart gu leòr.
The speaker says KERT but if you click on the single word it is pronounced KERSHT, the latter being what I always heard my mother say, along with sagARSHT, etc Is there a syntactical/semantic reason for the change of pronounciation for this simple case or is it something that requires a lot more delving into with Gaelic that goes beyond a simple reason/answer here?
It's just a matter of accent and where you're from.

Iain Sasannach
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Re: Vocative or no?

Unread post by Iain Sasannach » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:05 pm

Níall Beag wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:23 pm
GSD4ME wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:31 pm
Chan eil Anndra ceart gu leòr.
The speaker says KERT but if you click on the single word it is pronounced KERSHT, the latter being what I always heard my mother say, along with sagARSHT, etc Is there a syntactical/semantic reason for the change of pronounciation for this simple case or is it something that requires a lot more delving into with Gaelic that goes beyond a simple reason/answer here?
It's just a matter of accent and where you're from.
In specific, you can find maps of the dialectal variation here: https://doug5181.wixsite.com/sgdsmaps

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