Page 2 of 6

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:15 am
by poor_mouse
Fear a' choille wrote:Tha ruideagan ceàrr leis an òran...
An e 'rudegin' a tha ann?

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:38 am
by poor_mouse
GlitteringSkelly wrote:Anyway, some good plurals in this song – have noted neòil/clouds, domhain/heavens, acraichean/acres, lochan/lochs, coilltean/forests, làmhan/hands, cuibhlean/wheels, fàsaichean/lands.
Tha sin math gu dearbh! :)

Chan eil mi cinnteach ged-tà: tha mi den bheachd gu bheil an 'domhan' a' ciallachadh universe agus gur e foirm ginideach singilte (gevitive singular) ann an 'domhain' (because of the article: 'an domhain').

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:53 am
by poor_mouse
Seallaibh:
Runrig wrote:Sibh-se chuir achadh ri achadh
Taigh ri taigh
Gus nach bi ait anns an tir
An gabh sibh comhnaidh air leth
Seo an ás-earrann:
Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth
Isaiah 5:8

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:16 pm
by Thrissel
poor_mouse wrote:
Fear a' choille wrote:Tha ruideagan ceàrr leis an òran...
An e 'rudegin' a tha ann?
rudeigin, actually, rud (thing) + -eigin

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:47 pm
by Scott
Tha mi duillig ach chan eil mi ask a Ghaidlig.

When there is a consonant before a vowel, as in the case of an t-oran does the consonant, such as the "t" in this case, reflect the broad/slender influence of the vowel? I have been trying to figure out this for quite a while and have not really found the answer in any grammar points anywhere; and I do not have a live person whom I could hear speaking in order to have the question answered. Tapadh leibh!

Scott

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:06 pm
by Thrissel
It does. The t in an t-òran is pronounced in the same way as it would in tòrr; in an t-eagal it's pronounced as in teas. &c.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:28 am
by Scott
A Thrissel tapadh leib for the answer :)

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:47 pm
by GunChleoc
Thanks for the explanations, Thrissel!

Here's the quote from the song again with accents put in:
Sibhse chuir achadh ri achadh
Taigh ri taigh
Gus nach bi àite anns an tìr
’S an gabh sibh còmhnaidh air leth
Missing accents are a pet peeve of mine, because written words with missing accents have imprinted themselves on my visual memory, and years later down the road it's still causing me some difficulty with vowel length. I had missed the accent on còmhnaidh, it's fixed now :D

Note that there is a shortened form in the first line - written as you would say it. In written Gaelilc, it would be:

Sibhse a chuir achadh ri achadh.

a is the relative pronoun, but because sibhse ends in an e the two flow together and you don't hear the a as a separate word in this case. You could also write it Sibhs' a chuir to get the same spoken result.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:16 pm
by Tomba
Feasgar math a h-uile duine,

Tha ceist agam...

I wanted to tr*nsl*t* Alba to English before I go over its English lyrics but I got stuck on the first sentence :(
How come "Air sgiath a’ seòladh nan neòil" is translated into "This flight is sailing through the clouds"?
Using my dictionary, I was able to tr*nsl*t* "neòil" to "clouds", "seòladh" to "address" (but saw "seòladair" was "sailor" so figured it was something along the lines of sailing) and "sgiath" to "wing" or "shield".
In other words, if I make some effort I can understand the "sailing through the clouds" part, but where did "this flight" come from?


Tapadh leibh

p.s.
Why does this forum put asterisks in the word "tr*nsl*t*"?

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:25 am
by Thrissel
A more exact tr*nsl*t**n of "Air sgiath a’ seòladh nan neòil" would be "On a wing sailing the clouds". I only looked on the following three lines and I can assure you that the English tr*nsl*t**n is very, um, approximate.

The asterisks I gather are meant to keep away from here multitudes of people without real interest in Gaelic who just want to get a free tr*nsl*t**n of something they want to have tattooed on them. I'm told that before my time such people actually managed to "kill" a different website.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:39 pm
by Tomba
Thrissel wrote:A more exact tr*nsl*** of "Air sgiath a’ seòladh nan neòil" would be "On a wing sailing the clouds". I only looked on the following three lines and I can assure you that the English tr*nsl*** is very, um, approximate.
Tapadh leibh!
Good to know the English only delivers the spirit of the song and doesn't really tr*nsl*t* it word for word. I will keep on tr*nsl*t*ng it.
Thrissel wrote:The asterisks I gather are meant to keep away from here multitudes of people without real interest in Gaelic who just want to get a free tr*nsl*** of something they want to have tattooed on them. I'm told that before my time such people actually managed to "kill" a different website.
That's an interesting explanation. I would never have thought of that :)

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:35 pm
by Seonaidh
Actually, a word-for-word tr*nsl*t**n often does not come close to the original meaning. This is especially true when it comes to somewhat stylised forms, as one finds in poetry, songs etc. Some example (not songs, just odd expressions); "Down the apples" might get translated as "sìos na h-ùbhlan" by those unfamiliar with "rhyming slang". The expression, still extant in London, actually means "Down the stairs", with "apples" being used as the non-rhyming bit of "apples and pears" for "stairs". Similarly, to tr*nsl*t* "Na Fuadaichean" as "The Evictions" hardly carries the full force of the Gaelic, which refers to the mass eviction and deportation, over several generations, of a large proportion of the Highland population.

A "good" tr*nsl*t**n is, indeed, one that correctly interprets the spirit, rather than the literal meaning.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:36 pm
by Tomba
Seonaidh wrote:Actually, a word-for-word tr*nsl*** often does not come close to the original meaning.
A "good" tr*nsl*** is, indeed, one that correctly interprets the spirit, rather than the literal meaning.
That's very true, but what should a newbie like me do when trying to tr*nsl*t* a song and can't really grasp the spirit of it?
Maybe the dictionary I'm using doesn't offer enough options for words that tr*nsl*t* in several ways so it's harder for me to find the "most suitable" tr*nsl*t**n. For example, line 2 is translated to "and the blue heavens" but when I tried to tr*nsl*t* it I understood something about "deep" and "blue" (which is kinda the opposite :))

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:19 am
by conmaol
According to the Faclair Beag, "domhan" is a noun meaning "a universe" (with plural "domhain" - universes), and "domhain" is also an adjective meaning "deep". I'm not sure which one is meant here. To confuse things further, "liath" can mean either "blue" or "grey".

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:51 am
by poor_mouse
I thought that 'an domhain' might be singular, but in this case it would be genitive and why genitive here?
On the other hand, it may be 'an'='their', but it also hasn't much sense, has it?

Nuair a thòisich mi ag ionnsachadh na Gàidhlig o chionn trì bliadhna, dh'fheuch mi an t-òran sin eadar-theangachadh.
Bha sin glè fheumail dhan fhaclair agam, ach cha robh mi air co-chàradh a ghabhail idir. (Gabhaibh mo leisgeul!)


When I began to study Gaelic three years ago, I tried to tr*nsl*** this song.
It was very useful for my vocabulary, but I hadn't at all managed with synax.