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Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:33 pm
by Thrissel
poor_mouse wrote:I thought that 'an domhain' might be singular, but in this case it would be genitive and why genitive here?
On the other hand, it may be 'an'='their', but it also hasn't much sense, has it?
For the same reason that you have the preceding genitive nan neòil (I suppose the standard/traditional genitive would be nan neul but don't know what else it could be here). A' seòladh nan neòil [agu]s [a' seòladh] an domhain liath. "Sailing the clouds and [sailing] the grey-blue universe." It doesn't matter that the verbal noun seòladh isn't expressly used in the second line, it still affects the following noun domhan.
conmaol wrote:To confuse things further, "liath" can mean either "blue" or "grey".
We had an interesting debate about this about a year ago, starting here:
http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/foram/vi ... 424#p12424

With some simplification what happened was that Gaelic "divided the pallette of colours" with borderlines sometimes elsewhere than in other languages, so that from its viewpoint for instance liath is a continuum of one colour ranging from light grey to light blue, but darker grey is covered by glas and darker blue by gorm. Some others disagree with me but I believe that whether you link light grey to light blue or to dark grey is a purely artificial matter. That is to say, unless you use some scientific method like making the borders according to the percentages of the basic CMYK or RGB colours in a specific hue - but surely such methods played no role when these terms for colours were being coined.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:04 am
by Tomba
poor_mouse wrote:When I began to study Gaelic three years ago, I tried to tr*nsl*** this song.
It was very useful for my vocabulary, but I hadn't at all managed with synax.
That's what I'm trying to do but am getting frustrated by it...

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:24 am
by GunChleoc
Doing a word for word tr*nsl*t**n can help you understanding how a language works. Song lyrics can be tough sometimes, you often get older spellings, words left out, word order changed, poetic expressions... it is rewarding though, as long as you don't expect to figure everything out straight away. If you're a beginner, there will be too many grammar points you haven't studied yet involved. Don't let this keep you from trying though! Even bits and pieces are useful!

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:59 am
by poor_mouse
Mòran taing, a Thrissel!

Seadh, tha mi a' dol còmhla ruibh, a GhunChleoc -- I do agree, all bits and piesec are very useful!

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:43 pm
by conmaol
Bha sin glè fheumail dhan fhaclair agam = It was very useful for my vocabulary
I have a hunch that you can't use the word "faclair" (i.e. a kind of book) to mean "vocabulary" in the sense of the set of words that you know. Maybe "briathrachas" would be better in this context?
Bha sin glè fheumail dhan bhriathrachas agam
Am I right?

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:16 pm
by conmaol
Dh'fheuch mi a' chiad rann dhen òran a eadar-theangachadh, facal air an fhacal. [I tried to tr*nsl*t* the first verse of the song, word for word].
Air sgiath a' seòladh nan neòil 's an domhain liath [On a wing, sailing the clouds and the blue-grey universe]
Mar dhealbh a' tighinn beò tro na sgòthan [Like a picture, coming alive through the clouds]
'S mi a' tilleadh gu tìr [And me returning to land]
I tried the penultimate one too -
Sibhse a chuir achadh ri achadh, taigh ri taigh [You who place field against field, house against house]
Gus nach bi àite anns an tìr, 's an gabh sibh còmhnaidh air leth [So that there won't be a place in the land, and you will live (i.e. take residence) alone]
A bheil seo ceart? [Is this right?]

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:26 pm
by Thrissel
conmaol wrote:I have a hunch that you can't use the word "faclair" (i.e. a kind of book) to mean "vocabulary" in the sense of the set of words that you know. Maybe "briathrachas" would be better in this context?
Shaoilinnsa gu bheil. Bho thrì faclairean (AFB / Mark / Wentworth):

faclair: dictionary / dictionary, glossary, lexicon, vocabulary (in a book) / dictionary, lexicon

briathrachas: 1 terminology 2 verbosity / phraseology, terminology, verbosity, vocabulary / language, terminology, terms, verbosity, vocabulary, wordiness

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:51 pm
by Thrissel
conmaol wrote:Sibhse a chuir achadh ri achadh, taigh ri taigh [You who place field against field, house against house]
Gus nach bi àite anns an tìr, 's an gabh sibh còmhnaidh air leth [So that there won't be a place in the land, and you will live (i.e. take residence) alone]
Chanainnsa gu robh Елена ceart agus gun robh Runrig air eadar-theangachadh am Bìoball an-seo:
poor_mouse wrote:Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth
Isaiah 5:8
Mar sin, 's dòcha gum bu chòir sin a bhith "Till there won't be a place in the land where they [the fields & houses] could lie alone."

Ge-tà, mura biodh fhios agam gun robh an às-aithris ann... Sin trioblaid eile mu dheidhinn eadar-theangachaidhean bàrdachd - tha mi dhen bheachd gur àbhaist dha bàrdachad a bhith fada nas dà-sheaghaiche na rosg.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:27 pm
by GunChleoc
Tha thu ceart, tha e às a' Bhioball
You're right, it's from the Bible

I'd say briathrachas as well.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:43 pm
by conmaol
For comparison, here is Isaiah 5.8 from the Gaelic bible -
Is anaoibhin dhuibhse a ta cur tighe ri tigh agus a' cur achaidh ri achadh, gus nach bi ait ann, agus gu'n gabh sibh comhnuidh air leth, ann am meadhon na tire.
A literal tr*nsl*t**n of the Gaelic would be (I think) "Woe unto you who are adding house to house and field to field, until there is no space, and until you live alone, in the middle of the land". The New Living Bible English tr*nsl*t**n makes more sense in the context than the King James version - "What sorrow for you who buy up house after house and field after field, until everyone is evicted and you live alone in the land."

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:24 pm
by poor_mouse
Church slavonic: Горе совокупляющым дом к дому и село к селу приближающым, да ближнему отимут что: еда вселитеся едини на земли?
That is: to take (them) away from (their) neighbour; shall you live alone in the land /on the earth?
Something as: Am bi sibhse a' fuireach air leth san tìr?
conmaol wrote:I have a hunch that you can't use the word "faclair" (i.e. a kind of book) to mean "vocabulary" in the sense of the set of words that you know. Maybe "briathrachas" would be better in this context?
Bha sin glè fheumail dhan bhriathrachas agam
Am I right?
Thrissel wrote:Shaoilinnsa gu bheil. Bho thrì faclairean (AFB / Mark / Wentworth):

faclair: dictionary / dictionary, glossary, lexicon, vocabulary (in a book) / dictionary, lexicon

briathrachas: 1 terminology 2 verbosity / phraseology, terminology, verbosity, vocabulary / language, terminology, terms, verbosity, vocabulary, wordiness
GunChleoc wrote:I'd say briathrachas as well.
Tapadh leibh! Tha sin ceart gu dearbh.

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:38 pm
by Thrissel
Inntineach. Bha againn gu seo:
King James Version: ..., till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth.
New Living Bible: ..., until everyone is evicted and you live alone in the land.
Gaelic Bible: ..., until there is no space, and until you live alone, in the middle of the land.
Church Slavonic Bible: ..., to take (them) away from (their) neighbour; shall you live alone in the land /on the earth?

Agus na Bìobaill Teiceach:
Bible of Kralice (1613): ..., so that there is no space for others, as if you alone were spread out to live in the middle of the land.
Czech Ecumenical tr*nsl*t**n (1979): ..., so that there is no space left, as if you were the only settlers in the land.

A bheil duine sam bith againn aig a tha an Eabhrais Bhìoballach? :D
conmaol wrote:The New Living Bible English tr*nsl*** makes more sense in the context than the King James version
Fìrinn innse, tha cuimhn' agam nach do rinn mi bun no bàrr dhe Isaiah idir nuair a leugh mi KJV o chionn na bliadhnaichean... :priob:

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:31 pm
by Fear na coille
I am greatly immpressed with this discussion, especially poormouse and Thrissel who can triangualte a Bible verse into three languages. I read MacLaren's Beginner's Gaelic which is an old publication that still makes its rounds on the bookshelfs. In Beginner's Gaelic the author gives us an anecdote about a professor Blackie, whom having intimate knowledge of scripture, set out with each new language he picked up by side by side translations of Bibles.

You keep an old tradition going :D

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:43 pm
by GunChleoc
Ma tha ùidh agaibh anns a' Bhìoball, seo làrach-lìn feumail dhuibh:
If you are interested in the Bible, here's a useful website

http://www.biblegateway.com/

Re: Òran Gàidhlig na Seachdain?

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:49 am
by poor_mouse
Bha mi a' leughadh an t-Soisgeul san KJV agus tha mi den bheachd gu bheil e fìor sho-thuigseach 's gu bheil e glè coltach ris an fhear san t-Slàbhais na h-Eaglaise.
I read the Gospel in KJV and I think that it is really comprehensible and very much similar to the Church-Slavonic version.

Ach 's e an rud eile (diofraichte?) anns an Seann-Tiomnadh, tha mi a' smaoineachadh.
But with the Old Testament it's quite a different thing.

Gabhaibh mo leisgeul airson off-topic mòr!
I beg your pardon for the large off-topic!