Pronunciation of letter I/i
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- Rianaire
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Pronunciation of letter I/i
So I was helping someone with some Gaelic pronunciation, and I was dealing with a word with a short I/i* in it. Now I used to do that whole "ee" thing when I started learning, because that's what I was taught, until finally someone from Uist rolled her eyes and explained that that's something of a learner shibboleth.
Anyway, so this guy objected to my correction, on the grounds that he was taught by a native mainlander, and that the "ih" sound is an island thing. I'm pretty certain I know another guy (Mark Newman, whose been on BBC Alba talking about plants and gardens various times) who learnt from the same teacher (a guy from Glen Coe), and I don't think he does all the "ee" stuff.
I did say that all the Argyll native speakers I know (from Islay, Lismore and Tiree -- not mainlanders but I don't think that should be particularly relevant -- had the "ih" for short I/i.
This guy wasn't really that comfortable with Gaelic, but I thought it worth asking: does anyone know if there are any Scottish dialects that have an ee sound for it?
(* I/i written in both upper and lower case in case the letter's unclear on people's screens do to fonts...)
Anyway, so this guy objected to my correction, on the grounds that he was taught by a native mainlander, and that the "ih" sound is an island thing. I'm pretty certain I know another guy (Mark Newman, whose been on BBC Alba talking about plants and gardens various times) who learnt from the same teacher (a guy from Glen Coe), and I don't think he does all the "ee" stuff.
I did say that all the Argyll native speakers I know (from Islay, Lismore and Tiree -- not mainlanders but I don't think that should be particularly relevant -- had the "ih" for short I/i.
This guy wasn't really that comfortable with Gaelic, but I thought it worth asking: does anyone know if there are any Scottish dialects that have an ee sound for it?
(* I/i written in both upper and lower case in case the letter's unclear on people's screens do to fonts...)
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- Rianaire
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Re: Pronunciation of letter I/i
I'm lost Is the problem an issue of length or quality and what words are we talking about here, specifically? Is the i stressed or unstressed?
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- Rianaire
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Re: Pronunciation of letter I/i
Yeah, sorry, unclear. Just shows I'm pretty confused myself.
I'm talking about vowel quality. The three examples in the conversation were fios, a-nis and lios (in Lios Mór & Liosach). (There was also bhitheas/bhios, but that's a slightly different issue.) I know Am Faclair Beag lists these three with /i/ rather than /ɪ/, but it's a very reduced sound in reality, isn't it?
But it's a hell of a deeper issue than I first thought, cos listening to the samples on your page, I'm hearing the almost-/ɪ/ in several places (fios, lios, bior) and I can't see what it is in the context that's causing the reduction (and sin isn't reduced at all, which is contrary to what I expected).
I'm talking about vowel quality. The three examples in the conversation were fios, a-nis and lios (in Lios Mór & Liosach). (There was also bhitheas/bhios, but that's a slightly different issue.) I know Am Faclair Beag lists these three with /i/ rather than /ɪ/, but it's a very reduced sound in reality, isn't it?
But it's a hell of a deeper issue than I first thought, cos listening to the samples on your page, I'm hearing the almost-/ɪ/ in several places (fios, lios, bior) and I can't see what it is in the context that's causing the reduction (and sin isn't reduced at all, which is contrary to what I expected).
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- Rianaire
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Re: Pronunciation of letter I/i
Ah I'm with you now. Yes, there is a tendency to reduce even stressed /i/ to /ɪ/, in particular in the absence of a slender consonant nearby. I did dither a bit over whether I should present the system as /i:/ ~ /ɪ/ as opposed to /i:/ ~ /i/ ~ /ɪ/ but I decided introducing such a skew would not be helpful.
So, sin vs fios my take is that the /ʃ/ is (keeping?) the vowel raised whereas in fios there is nothing to keep it from dropping.
So, sin vs fios my take is that the /ʃ/ is (keeping?) the vowel raised whereas in fios there is nothing to keep it from dropping.
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Re: Pronunciation of letter I/i
Ach tha fuaimean an-seo eadar-dhealaichte ris an fheadhainn san Fhaclair Bheag airson fìor, sìos, sìoda, crìoch.
Eilidh -- Luchag Bhochd
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- Rianaire
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Re: Pronunciation of letter I/i
Tha ìo a' dol eadar /i:/ agus /iə/ a-rèir na sgìre
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Re: Pronunciation of letter I/i
Tha 'i' ann an tir mór Arra-Gháidheil air fad air fhuaimneachamh /ee/
fios /fis/
sin /ʃin/
mise /miʃə/
Tha mi am beachd nach ann mar sin a tha e an Éireann glé cheart, ach an Arra-Gháidheal air fad 's Sgìreachd Pheàirt cha chreib mi cuideachd, their sinne /ee/
Gu dearbh, tha mo nighean bitheanta feòraich rium "Gu dé a th' ann am 'fiss' agas 'misha', a bhobain?"
fios /fis/
sin /ʃin/
mise /miʃə/
Tha mi am beachd nach ann mar sin a tha e an Éireann glé cheart, ach an Arra-Gháidheal air fad 's Sgìreachd Pheàirt cha chreib mi cuideachd, their sinne /ee/
Gu dearbh, tha mo nighean bitheanta feòraich rium "Gu dé a th' ann am 'fiss' agas 'misha', a bhobain?"
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