Bohemia, Moravia & Silesia

[Duncan MacCall]

Hi, do these have specific Gaelic forms, or is the English transcription used (even the "v" in "Moravia")? And supposing it's the latter, do native speakers pronounce them as in English (eg Silesia - /saɪˈliːʃə/) or "as if they were written in Gaelic"? Thanks, Duncan

[neoni]

gaelic speakers don't tend to talk about places like that in gaelic. you'd be fine using the english spelling and pronunciation

[Neas Olc]

gaelic speakers don't tend to talk about places like that in gaelic

English speakers don't tend to talk about places like that in English either.

Cha bhi bruidhneadairean Bheurla a bruidhinn mu àitichean mar sin nas mòtha.

[Níall Beag]

As Neas Olc says, most people don't know the English/Latin names for these, so why even use it?

Why not go with the Czech/Polish names?

[Duncan MacCall]

As Neas Olc says, most people don't know the English/Latin names for these, so why even use it?

Why not go with the Czech/Polish names?

I'm afraid few people in the UK would be happy with Čechy (=Bohemia), featuring the caron (ˇ) as it does, or Slezsko (=Silesia] with its Slavic clutter of consonants... And I suspect they would mistake Čechy for the Czech Republic, which it isn't - CR is Bohemia/Čechy plus Moravia plus the CR part of Silesia...

[Duncan MacCall]

And yes, I dare say people don't tend to talk about those, but they do tend to ask you where you come from, so there you are (or rather, there I am )

[akerbeltz]

Yes, I agree, people would tend to use the English words in spoken Gaelic.

You could turn to the Irish forms for the written language, they have An Bhoithéim for Bohemia. Can't find Moravia.

If you gaelicised them, you'd end up with A' Bhoitheam (Gaelic doesn't allow long vowels in unstressed syllables). By analogy, A' Mhoraibh I guess? That might overlap with Moireibh (Moray) though. You might be safer with Boitheam na Seice and Morabh na Seice.

But unless you have a map/picture/explanation right next to where you're using these, be prepared for confused looks.

On the other hand, Bohemian as an adjective is something we could do with in Gaeldom

[Seonaidh]

Seic? (Boitheam na Seice etc.) Don't confuse the chap, Acker Bilk. "Seic" is the Gaelic for "cheque". As the people themselves tend to use "chesky" (actually, a C with one of those v-things on it - like an English CH), maybe "Teasgaidh" would be a better Gaelic rendition.

"Bohemia" - tha seo dhe "Boio-heim", Tir nam Boii.

"Silesia" - 's e "Tir nan Silingi", 's dòcha, seann daoine Bhandalaich.

"Moravia" - 's dòcha dhen abhainn, "Morava" - Uisge Mòr? Abhainn Mhòr?

Dè mu dheidhinn "Rapsodaidh Boiach" le Banrigh...

[akerbeltz]

It's also the word for the czech republic, most languages have homophones of some sort of other.

"Bohemia" - tha seo dhe "Boio-heim", Tir nam Boii.
"Silesia" - 's e "Tir nan Silingi", 's dòcha, seann daoine Bhandalaich.
"Moravia" - 's dòcha dhen abhainn, "Morava" - Uisge Mòr? Abhainn Mhòr?

Yeah but remember you're trying to come up with a Gaelic word that has some chance of getting accepted and understood without breaking the rules of Gaelic sounds. The suggestions above would probably sit well with a historian but most people would have a big "huh?" moment.

I think I mentioned this in another string, if you do too much tr*nsl*t**n of foreign place names, you get into trouble soon because you end up with 10,000 places called Baile a Deas and 100,000 places called Baile nam Manach.

[Níall Beag]

"Silesia" - 's e "Tir nan Silingi", 's dòcha, seann daoine Bhandalaich.

I think I mentioned this in another string, if you do too much tr*nsl***** of foreign place names, you get into trouble soon because you end up with 10,000 places called Baile a Deas and 100,000 places called Baile nam Manach.

Not only that, but if no-one knows what the real meaning of the term is to start with, what are you traslating? Silesia, for example, is probably named after a river and a mountaing, and that the river/mountain is possibly named after the Silingi, or the Silingi might have possibly be named after the river. And maybe the river, or the people, or the region, was named after the local word for marshland.

Gaelic's already rife with false etymologies (cf The Skyish Isle) without starting throwing in more!

[Duncan MacCall]

Seic? (Boitheam na Seice etc.) Don't confuse the chap, Acker Bilk. "Seic" is the Gaelic for "cheque".

I don't think this is confusing, I've found an t-Seic for Czech Republic in several sources, including Angus Watson's 2007 G-E Dict and the Sabhal Ostaig Mòr database , but as I was saing, the CR isn't synonymous with Bohemia.

By analogy, A' Mhoraibh I guess? That might overlap with Moireibh (Moray) though.

This is interesting, it reminds me of what I read a couple of years ago in P B Ellis' MacBeth, High King of Scotland, where he cites some Latin documents as using the phrase "Ergadia quae ad Moravium pertinent" - "Argyll, which belongs to Moray".

Generally, though: I would of course be unco happy if Gaelic names for these countries existed, but I don't mean to try and create any neologisms which would probably never catch on anyway, so I reckon I'll stick to the English forms. (Though I'll possibly use Boitheam and Moireibh or Morabh as personal affectionate nicknames for the two ). Co-dhiù, mòran taing dhuibh uile!

[akerbeltz]

but as I was saing, the CR isn't synonymous with Bohemia.

I know that but I suggested modifying Moraibh with na Seice to give someone an additional clue as to the location so it's clearly not in Scotland.

[Duncan MacCall]

Oh, I didn't mean that, I see no problem with "Moravia of the Czech Republic"; what I had in mind was that while an t-Seic can be used to refer to the CR, it shouldn't be used for Bohemia. In fact some people do say Čechy/Bohemia meaning Česká republika/Czech Republic, but then some people say England meaning Great Britain, and Moravians & Silesians aren't any happier with the former than the Scottish and the Welsh with the latter.

[IainDonnchaidh]

Nach eil "Moray" ionnan mar "Fidach" no "Tìr na Fiadh" ?



Is not "Moray" the same as "Fidach" or "Land of Deer" ?