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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:48 am
by Seonaidh
'S ann inntinneach na tha agad ri ràdh airson call N ro LNER (OK, chan E...), air sgàth 's fu bheil sin coltach ris a' Breatannais - m.e.

al lamm - an leum
an natur - an nàdar
ar rann - an roinn

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:18 am
by akerbeltz
Tha, ach cuimhnich gu bheil call de chonsan deireannach ro chonsan tòiseachail glé chumanta san fharsaingeachd, cf

an apple
an orchard
a lamb
a road
a neighbour

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:48 pm
by Seonaidh
Dè? Mar "am boy" is "a' ghirl"? Nach e "an t-apple"? (uill, 's dòcha gur e ann an Siorrachd York...). Cuideachd "some h-islands"...

Sa Chuimris, cleachdar "y" is "yr" am "an", "na", "a'", "nan" amsaa. Sa Chòrnais, cleachdar "an". Sa Bhreatannais, cleachdar "ar" - ach "an" ro dh'fhuaimreagan is N, leis na h-atharrachaidhean eile ro L, M amsaa. A' chaileag - ar plac'h. Ha me ta, Breizhad yaouank, petra rin gant va buhez? Agus mise, Breatannach òg, dè rinn mi lem bheatha?

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:44 pm
by akerbeltz
Thuig thu cearr mi - bha sin a' bruidhinn air an -n a chrìonas air falbh sa Ghàidhlig ro lnr agus thug thu iomradh air an dearbh rud sa Chuimris.

Tha e coltach gun teagamh ach bha mi airson aire a tharraing gu bheil seo gu math cumanta ann an iomadh cànan gun crìon consain air falbh ma bhios cus dhiubh agad.

'S e an an indefinite article sa Bheurla ach crìonaidh an -n air falbh ro chonsain eile.

Chì thu sin san Fhraingis cuideachd far am faigh thu
deux portes /dø pɔːr/
ach
deux enfents /dø zɑfɑ/

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:38 pm
by Thrissel
Seadh, sin as coireach a tha e cho doirbh a' fuaimneachadh "Cuir meur tron amhach!" mar bu chòir sa Sheacais - 's e "Strč prst skrz krk!". :priob:

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:21 am
by Níall Beag
akerbeltz wrote:'S e an an indefinite article sa Bheurla ach crìonaidh an -n air falbh ro chonsain eile.
I think this one's worth a little more explanation as most people find it hard to accept.

First, a demonstration -- Gaelic, English, French, Spanish, German (German tr*nsl*t**n by Babelfish)

carbaid -- a car -- une voiture -- un coche -- ein Auto
aon carbaid* -- one car -- une voiture -- un coche -- ein Auto

Notice how the French, Spanish and German for "a car" and "one car" is the same. Interestingly enough, on the second line we have aon, one, une, un are ein which are extremely similar words -- all monosyllabic, ending in N. It's still not 100% clear what's going on here, so let's look at apples:

ubhal -- an apple -- une pomme -- una manzana -- ein Apfel
aon ubhal -- one apple -- une pomme -- una manzana -- ein Apfel

Now looking at this we still have a very similar second line (although the Spanish is now bisyllabic), but more importantly there's an "N" in the English in the first line. Looking at the pattern and remembering that English is much more closely related to German, French and Spanish than it is to Gaelic, we can see that "an" must be a variant form of "one".

(And then we can confirm this by studying ancient books and manuscripts, proving that the indefinite article was invented in Europe from the number one, after the time of the Romans!)

So it is clear that "an" must have been invented before "a".
So while common belief (and primary school teaching) is that "an" is "a" with an added N, the truth is the other way round: "a" is "an" with the N taken away.
deux portes /dø pɔːr/
Bi faiceallach -- tha thu a' measgachadh fuaim nan doras le sgrìobhadh nam puirt....

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:49 am
by akerbeltz
Bi faiceallach -- tha thu a' measgachadh fuaim nan doras le sgrìobhadh nam puirt....
¿Que? Eadar dà sgeul - sgrìobhadh nam port :P
So while common belief (and primary school teaching) is that "an" is "a" with an added N, the truth is the other way round: "a" is "an" with the N taken away.
Tha sin ceart. Sin as coireach gum bidh mise a' teagasg gur e seo na faclan bunaiteach:
a h-
ar n-
ur n-

agus gu bheil an h-/n- a' crìonadh air falbh ro chonsan sam bith.

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:03 pm
by Níall Beag
akerbeltz wrote:
Bi faiceallach -- tha thu a' measgachadh fuaim nan doras le sgrìobhadh nam puirt....
¿Que? Eadar dà sgeul - sgrìobhadh nam port :P
*naire*
Có-dhiubh, bha mi a-mach air seo:
akerbeltz wrote:deux portes /dø pɔːr/
dà dhoras -- deux portes /dø pɔːrt/
dà phort -- deux ports /dø pɔːr/

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:31 pm
by akerbeltz
ah, duilich - leughaidh mi an Fhraingis ach cha bhruidhinn mi e, sin as coireach gun dèan mi mearachdan d' a leithid :naire: