Fionnlagh wrote:I was sorry to read that Niall Beag doesn't see that one can gain anything from such an experience. Indeed all such situations provide learning experiences for us all especially if one likes sharing what one learns often through very hard work; with others.
Being in a language learning environment where I don't understand anything of the target language is a great experience especially if the tutor/teacher can convey meaning through TPR or in other ways.
Well that's exactly the point, I don't convey meaning through TPR, I convey meaning through
Spanish. I convey meaning through the most meaningful channel that they know -- their own language. No artificial gestures, no waving blocks in the air and saying "this is red". No, I go straight to the heart of the matter so that every single stage of learning is meaningful. If my students don't understand, they just tell me and we fix it. TPR assumes that sitting confused for 5 minutes is an essential part of the language learning process, but it's not required for learning any other skill, so why should it be for language?
Besides, I'm just starting out and while I know what I'm aiming to do, and I could recommend a publication that would demonstrate this better than I could, if you're mind is truly open to it.
When I am settled into the technique, would I allow Finlay to observe one of my lessons? Probably not.
And why not? Because Finlay continues to insist on cheap point-scoring to dismiss other people's arguments rather than addressing them or agreeing to differ.
Cheap argument 1: What have <i>you</i> done for Gaelic?
In my case I'm not good enough to do anything yet (although I'm considering a career in GME (secondary) if I can get good enough)
However, An Gobaire and Gràisg write frequent blogs in the language, and Gràisg is known as active in seeking for Gaelic services in his local area (hence the name); Akerbeltz is a professional tr*nsl*t*r and writer of study materials (much of which he publishes free on-line); noclockthing runs this site at her own expense.
Cheap argument 2: You're all hiding behind false names!
Well, Finlay's birth certificate doubtless doesn't say "Fionnlagh". Not only are handles common on the internet, as has already been pointed out, but in the Gaelic world it's very common to have a different name in Gaelic and in English. Sometimes the differences are superficial (eg Iain Domhnallach <-> Ian MacDonald) but sometimes they are almost unrecognisable (eg Iain Òg Ìle <-> John Francis Campbell). For people like Seonaidh... well that's the just the Gaelic equivalent of his name. Nìall Beag is who've I've been since day one of learning. Gràisg doesn't hide his name, but there's no Gàidhlig equivalent (that I'm aware of) so he picked a handle. Akerbeltz, well everyone's more familiar with his website name than his name, so why not use the name everyone knows?
For the random punters, what does the name matter? Most people here aren't all that publicly visible anyway -- our names really don't give any more information on who we are.
Cheap argument 3: I'm not interested in research, I'm interested in results.
Q: How do you objectively measure results?
A: Research.
And more specifically, how do you, Finlay, measure results? Seemingly by focussing on individual success stories (eg Shannon MacDonald) and ignoring larger scale failures.
At the Mod, you were talking with the Falkirk TIP group. From the way they were talking its clear they're struggling. They're extremely highly motivated, self-funding regular trips to the Sabhal Mór for as much exposure to the language as they can get. One of them was even on Ùlaidhean when they visited the Smith in Stirling. I first met these guys 3 (I think) years ago at the Sabhal Mór and their rate of progress is no better than mine. (The only formal education I've had in Gaelic is 4 one-week courses at the SMO.)
But when you spoke to them, you made no attempt to find out why TIP was failing them -- instead you put the blame on them. They weren't doing it right. You told them it was "absolutely vital" that they record the lessons and listen "again and again and again".
Why weren't they doing it? Because it's boring, it's not interactive, it's not engaging. It is the complete antithesis of what you claim above.
But when it comes down to it, you are a traditional teacher. Your grand statements about the learning process are merely intellectual and superficial, because inside what you really believe is that language learning is all about hard graft (you had to work damn hard to get where you are today, after all) and that anyone who fails simply isn't working hard enough.
TIP: effortless and natural -- if you're willing to put the work in.
Perhaps more importantly, I do not believe Finlay himself has ever attempted to learn a language using a TPR/TIP style methodology. In fact, I recall him telling me that Gaelic is the only language he has ever studied. When it comes to results, there's two types that I value: statistically accurate figures, and my own feelings of frustration (or absence thereof). He has neither of these as justification.
