Fòram na Gàidhlig

My full name is Joseph Ryan Morrison. I have seen Morrison written as Moireasdan. Would that pronounced as MOI-rish-chan? I have seen Joseph as Seosaidh (pron. SHEEYOsah?) and Seoseph (pron. SHEEYOsef?). Which is correct? Is my pronunciation correct? Lastly, Ryan is Irish, and it's the name I go by among friends. I have seen it as Raighan. I assume this is pronounced as I am used to pronouncing it. Is this correct?

So, if I were introducing myself, it would be: 'S mise Rhaighan. Is this correct? How would the pronunciation of my name change when lenited?

And if I were to introduce myself with my full name, would all names be lenited? E.g. 'S mise Sheosaidh Rhaighan Mhoireasdan?

Thanks for the help!
Slainte!
Ryan

Eòsaiph chòir,
A rèir m' fhaclair crap, 's e "Eòsaph" no "Iòsaph" airson "Joseph". As for "Ryan", could nae find it at all. However, I have a step son called "Ryan" and he is undeniably Scottish. In the "'S mise wombat-features" construction, you don't soften it, put it on a diet or anything else comical like that. So, "'S mise Iòsaph Moireasdan" (if you want to make out you sang with Na Dorsan...). As for "Ryan", I've heard it derove originally from "little king", so maybe "Rìoghan" or "Rìghean". It would never have an H after the R (chan eil sinn a' bruidhinn Cuimris an seo!) and R is said not to change, particularly with fat vowels, though some reckon it does with thin ones.

Or you could jus say "'S mise Simidh Raighean Moireasdan", which would sound vaguely like "Jimmy Ryan Morrison", the main difference being the intrusive T (not CH or C, note) in, effectively, "Morriston". Aidh, 's e Searaidh Sap an t-ainm a th' air.

Seonaidh chòir,

Ceud mile taing! At least I now have mo an t-ainm sussed! "Ryan" was not a family name actually, but my mathair agus athair gave me an Irish name in honor of our Doyle and Brady part of the family tree. Agus tha sin ceart, "Little king" is it's meaning. So, "'S mise Iòsaph Raighean Moireasdan" it is! Mo seanair Iòsaph would be glad!

Glad to know ya ken Searaidh! Good lad! Trying to get him to resurrect his Gaidhlig study group. Bidh mi beo an dòchas!

Moran taing a-rithist!
Slainte mhor agad!
Raighean

Seonaidh wrote:Eòsaiph chòir,
A rèir m' fhaclair crap, 's e "Eòsaph" no "Iòsaph" airson "Joseph". As for "Ryan", could nae find it at all. However, I have a step son called "Ryan" and he is undeniably Scottish. In the "'S mise wombat-features" construction, you don't soften it, put it on a diet or anything else comical like that. So, "'S mise Iòsaph Moireasdan" (if you want to make out you sang with Na Dorsan...). As for "Ryan", I've heard it derove originally from "little king", so maybe "Rìoghan" or "Rìghean". It would never have an H after the R (chan eil sinn a' bruidhinn Cuimris an seo!) and R is said not to change, particularly with fat vowels, though some reckon it does with thin ones.

Or you could jus say "'S mise Simidh Raighean Moireasdan", which would sound vaguely like "Jimmy Ryan Morrison", the main difference being the intrusive T (not CH or C, note) in, effectively, "Morriston". Aidh, 's e Searaidh Sap an t-ainm a th' air.

my name = m' ainm

I have seen Morrison written as Moireasdan. Would that pronounced as MOI-rish-chan?

It would be something like MO-rish-chan if the -sd- was slender and spelled something like Moirisdean. It's dark though, so you get something like MO-res-den

Hello a Ryan no Eòsaph!

Tha mise neach-ionnsachaidh cuideachd!
I'm a learner too!

Uill (from what I've learned)...

Lenition does not occur when addressing yourself, rather when addressing others. For example:

'S mise Dòmhnall I am Donald
Hallo, a Dhòmhnaill Hello Donald

Additionally names, and indeed Gàidhlig words in generall, beginning with l, n or r are not lenited - when addressing someone these names become; Hallo, a [unchanged name]

ALSO names beginning with vowels (a, i, o, u, e) remain unchanged/ unlenited and ALSO the 'a' from before the name is omitted before addressing.

I hope this is not too much at once - this helps me too!

The changes which take place when the conditions are right for lenition to occur are as follows.

Female names: An 'h' is added after the initial consonant, only:-

Màiri becomes a Mhàiri

Male names: An 'h' and an 'i' before the last consonant(s) in the name are added:-

Dòmhnall becomes a Dhòmhnaill

A-nis, to conclude the 'essay';

Ryan becomes a Ryan because it starts with 'r'.
Eòsaph stays as plain old Eòsaph because it starts with a vowel. No preceding 'a'!

Uill, hope that's a good intro!

Sin the fhèin!!

Ruairidh

A very good explanation, Ruairidh!

Here's a bit of nitpicking for you though; I hope it helps you when you continue to read about the grammar (and I love my nits...):

When you say "I am Donald", you are not really adressing yourself, but you are saying something about yourself. If you do address yourself, e.g. "Donald, you idiot!" when you're angry with yourself becaue you've done something stupid, then you have to do the whole lenition thing.

And another grammatical term for you: inserting the i at the end is called "slenderisation". And I think Eòsaph needs one too, making the vocative: Eòsaiph!

GunChleoc wrote:
Here's a bit of nitpicking for you though; I hope it helps you when you continue to read about the grammar (and I love my nits...):

When you say "I am Donald", you are not really adressing yourself, but you are saying something about yourself. If you do address yourself, e.g. "Donald, you idiot!" when you're angry with yourself becaue you've done something stupid, then you have to do the whole lenition thing.

And another grammatical term for you: inserting the i at the end is called "slenderisation". And I think Eòsaph needs one too, making the vocative: Eòsaiph!

What your saying is all true!

I remember making that mistake before:

When addressing persons with names beginning in either l, n or r or a vowel the initial letter only, remains unchanged. In male names an i is still added as normal.

I also see what you mean by addressing yourself. What I really meant by 'addressing' yourself is when talking about yourself i.e. in first person. Ach, nonetheless I'd never really thought of it from that perspective.

Very helpful in revision though! Tapadh leibh!

'S e do bheatha

You could also use MacIlleMhoire instead of Moireasdan

Stìophan wrote:You could also use MacIlleMhoire instead of Moireasdan

The Gaelic-English Dictionary, by Colin Mark (2003) lists "Morrison" as Moireasdan. But i noticed within the text of the book it gives one example of it in use, yet it is spelt with a letter t, instead of d. Quoted Gaelic: 's e creachadairean a bha aig Seumas Moireastan orra; quoted English: James Morrison called them robbers. Anyone know why it is like that? Typo? The book also lists MacMhoirein for "Morrison (Islay)". Anyone know why the Islay Morrisons use this form? Is part of an Islay dialect? Or does it have to do with genealogy; maybe traditionally they don't descend from a GilleMhoire, like say a MacIlleMhoire would? Morrison is one of those names that is an Anglicised form of several different Gaelic surnames from different families in Ireland/Scotland.

Anyways, i've got another question. My name is an "Irish" name too; and was wondering how to spell it in Scottish Gaelic. It is "Brendan", which is Breandán and Brénainn in Irish Gaelic. How would someone spell it in Scottish Gaelic?

-st- and -sd- is pronounced the same, so you can encounter both versions of it.

Coming back to the name for a moment, tr*nsl*t**n differs depending on whether it's a surname or a first name. The derivation of the name is Riaghan (also anglicised Rian) is attested as an Irish name but etymologists have been squabbling for decades over its underlying meaning. Suggestions include water, king and ritus (Latin for rite).

Being practical, if Ryan is part of your name, then the Gaelic form would be Riaghan (grammatical treatment as explained above). If it was your surname, then it would be Maol Riaghain.