Fòram na Gàidhlig

Slender and broad? Are these the reason for the excessive number of unused letters in gaidhlig sentences? And can someone tell me what they are an how they work please?

Sun wrote:Slender and broad? Are these the reason for the excessive number of unused letters in gaidhlig sentences? And can someone tell me what they are an how they work please?

Slender and broad all starts with vowels.

E and I are "slender", because when you say them there's only a small gap between the tongue and the roof of your mouth.

A, O and U are "broad", because there's a much bigger gap.

Now in English, slender vowels change the sound of certain consonants:

The two Gs in gorge are pronounced differently and the Cs in city and cat are different.

Other languages do it too, albeit with different sounds -- Italian names like Giorgio, for example, and then there your capuccino or Al Pacino, where the I makes the CC sound like the English TCH, whereas the first C in capuccino stays K-like because of the A.

So Gaelic's not really that different. Aside from the fact that it affects different (and more) letters in Gaelic from in English, the only real difference is that where English and Italian only look at the vowel after the consonant, Gaelic looks both ways, so a consonant has to have the same type of vowel on both sides -- if it had broad on one side and slender on the other, you wouldn't know how to pronounce it!

Leathann ri leathann ´s caol ri caol is a reference to this -- a broad vowel next to a consonant must be paired with a broad vowel on the other side, if there is any vowel there at all, and similarly a slender vowel on one side needs to be paired with another slender on the other side.



How are you going about learning Gaelic anyway? Every teacher and book I've come across covers this....

Gaelic has no silent letters in the sense of unnecessary. Each letter has a precise function and tells you something about the pronunciation, unlike English. If you learn to understand the system, it's incredibly sophisticated.

Well, hardly any unnecessary letters, there's a few we could do without.

Níall Beag wrote:

Sun wrote:Slender and broad? Are these the reason for the excessive number of unused letters in gaidhlig sentences? And can someone tell me what they are an how they work please?

Slender and broad all starts with vowels.

E and I are "slender", because when you say them there's only a small gap between the tongue and the roof of your mouth.

A, O and U are "broad", because there's a much bigger gap.

Now in English, slender vowels change the sound of certain consonants:

The two Gs in gorge are pronounced differently and the Cs in city and cat are different.

Other languages do it too, albeit with different sounds -- Italian names like Giorgio, for example, and then there your capuccino or Al Pacino, where the I makes the CC sound like the English TCH, whereas the first C in capuccino stays K-like because of the A.

So Gaelic's not really that different. Aside from the fact that it affects different (and more) letters in Gaelic from in English, the only real difference is that where English and Italian only look at the vowel after the consonant, Gaelic looks both ways, so a consonant has to have the same type of vowel on both sides -- if it had broad on one side and slender on the other, you wouldn't know how to pronounce it!

Leathann ri leathann ´s caol ri caol is a reference to this -- a broad vowel next to a consonant must be paired with a broad vowel on the other side, if there is any vowel there at all, and similarly a slender vowel on one side needs to be paired with another slender on the other side.



How are you going about learning Gaelic anyway? Every teacher and book I've come across covers this....

I'm not using a book or learning from a teacher, i have to make do with the internet because i know of only one person who speaks gaelic, i've never even met her, and i can't use books because of inconsiderate parents who probably think "why the fuck are you bothering?" and seem that way whenever i mention learning gaelic, and asking to buy a book on it? Probably pointless. It is true though, learning gaelic is pointless and impractical and i only want to learn it so i can listen to gaelic music and feel smug about knowing the language. Nobody speaks gaelic in normal conversations these days , only in the western isles

okay.... having a bad day are we sun?

Well, the internet isn't a bad place to start, as long as you keep at it.

Try these pages:
http://www.akerbeltz.org/fuaimean/fuaimean.htm
About the sounds of the language.

http://www.akerbeltz.org/beagangaidhlig ... ramair.htm
About the grammar but also has a guide on how the letters correspond to the sounds.

Even if you're only after a passive understanding of the language, you will have to invest some time into the sound system because in Gaelic, a) words change more than they do in English (for example mòr can also show up as mhòr, mhòir, mòra, mhòra or mòire) and b) because they interact more with each other, for example an duine is often pronounced as if it was a nuine and so on. Otherwise you'll never understand anything.

That aside, it's actually a common misconception. More than half of all Gaelic speakers live in the central belt. Granted, they're a bit harder to find there but there's plenty of opportunities if you look for them.

Tha tòrr dhinn ann an Astràilia, Canada, na Stàitean Aonaichte, a Ghearmailt, an Fhraing........ Am faigheas tu an ìomhaigh ? Cum ort. Bidh sinn toilichte gad cuideacheadh.
Rach gu http://www.taic.me.uk/ cuideachd. Tha siostam riaghailteach leasain ann bho toiseach gu deireadh le faidhleachan fuaim ann cuideachd.

There's plenty of us in Australia, Canada, the US, Germany, France... Do you get the picture? Keep it up. We're happy to help.
Go to http://www.taic.me.uk/ also. There's a regular system of lessons from beginning to end with sound files.

Sun,
Don't be afraid to stick your head into the library on Union St. If they don't have anything in stock, they'll be able to get stuff in on loan from another branch for a couple of quid. Check how long you'll be able to keep it, though. If you can keep it for 6 weeks (including renewals), it's worth a bash.

The library is a good friend to anyone who wants to learn languages.

Given my circumstances, I'd say that learning Gàidhlig would be pointless given that I live in Alaska were it not for the internet. That makes all the difference in the world. The internet has the ability of aggregating people of like interest though they be far apart physically. When I did eventually travel to Scotland, I wound up talking with over 40 different people in Gàidhlig.

There's tons to do in Gàidhlig once you gain a certain level of proficiency in it.

You can also find a short orthography guide on the homepage http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/index.php?page=41

It doesn't cover everything, but enough to get you started, I hope.

Sun wrote:i know of only one person who speaks gaelic, i've never even met her, and i can't use books because of inconsiderate parents who probably think "why the fuck are you bothering?" and seem that way whenever i mention learning gaelic

Hey, I know how it feels - spending my high-school days in the 1980s in the so-called Soviet block, my parents were often shaking heads: "Why did you choose English as the foreign language to learn? You'll never get behind the Iron Curtain anyway, so you'll hardly ever be able to use it outside the school, let alone need it, so why bother? Just because you like the Beatles and Paul Simon?" And man, am I glad today I didn't listen... Tearlach61 is quite right, the Net makes all the difference, but in addition to that - you never know what might happen in the future...