Does anyone know of a good resource with verb tables in gaelic (preferably online)? I have a couple of books (TYG & Everyday gaelic) which aren't much use in this respect. In particular i'm looking for the inifitives and subject pronouns for 'to be' and' to have'. These are my thoughts:
1. To be (Infinitive) - ?
I am - I believe this can be 'Tha m'i or 'Is mise'?
You are - Tha thu/sibh?
He is - Tha e
She is - Tha I
We are - Tha sinn
They are - Tha iad
2. To have (infinitive) - ?
I have?
You have?
He has?
She has?
It has?
We have?
You have?
They have?
p.s. is this book any good?
Gaelic Verbs: Systemised and Simplified
By Colin B.D. Mark
Verb tables?
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Seonaidh
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O, duw duw. What is an "infinitive"? Also, in the general sense of "I have a house", "he has asthma" and so on, there is no Gaelic verb "have", just as there ain't in Welsh.
What both Gaelic and Welsh have - and use a norful lot - is something quaintly termed a "verb-noun". In some ways, this is like the traditional Latin infinitive, in others, it's more like the traditional Lain gerund, and in some ways it's completely different. For, if you start using terms like "infinitive", it is really Latin, rather than English, that you're relating to. That is where classical grammar comes from - with a few add-ins from ancient Greek. But English, Welsh and Gaelic (for example) just don't work that way - attempts to force English into the classical model of grammar probably held back a full appreciation of the language for a century or so.
So, is "to be" an infinitive? In which case, what official status would you give to "be" in "she will be", or to "being" in "you are being", or to "been" in "they had been"? In general, the most useful part of a verb to know is its root, i.e. the bit you stick things onto (in English, things like -ed, -s, -ing). In general, in both Welsh and Gaelic, this is not the same as the "verb-noun".
Now, it may be a fault of Gaelic dictionaries that they give you the root, rather than the verb-noun, e.g. if you look up "mean" you might find the Gaelic given as "ciallaich", which is the root, not the verb-noun. If you look up "meaning", you might find "ciallachadh", which happens to be the associated verb-noun. Certainly, in Welsh dictionaries, the usual form given is the verb-noun, e.g. "rhedeg" for "run", rather than the root, which is "rhed". But it's something best got used to.
"Is mise" (and similar forms) are probably best translated into English as "It's me", not as "I am". Indeed, you've probably come across the 3rd person singular masculine form of that quite a bit, i.e. "Is esan", or, more usually, "'S e". So, just as 'S mi Iain" lit. means "It's me Ian", so, "'S e dotair..." lit. means "It's him, a doctor" - or, more usually, just "It's a doctor. So "'S e dotair a th' annam" means "I'm a doctor", but lit. "It's a doctor that's in me".
Enough for el mo...have fun!
What both Gaelic and Welsh have - and use a norful lot - is something quaintly termed a "verb-noun". In some ways, this is like the traditional Latin infinitive, in others, it's more like the traditional Lain gerund, and in some ways it's completely different. For, if you start using terms like "infinitive", it is really Latin, rather than English, that you're relating to. That is where classical grammar comes from - with a few add-ins from ancient Greek. But English, Welsh and Gaelic (for example) just don't work that way - attempts to force English into the classical model of grammar probably held back a full appreciation of the language for a century or so.
So, is "to be" an infinitive? In which case, what official status would you give to "be" in "she will be", or to "being" in "you are being", or to "been" in "they had been"? In general, the most useful part of a verb to know is its root, i.e. the bit you stick things onto (in English, things like -ed, -s, -ing). In general, in both Welsh and Gaelic, this is not the same as the "verb-noun".
Now, it may be a fault of Gaelic dictionaries that they give you the root, rather than the verb-noun, e.g. if you look up "mean" you might find the Gaelic given as "ciallaich", which is the root, not the verb-noun. If you look up "meaning", you might find "ciallachadh", which happens to be the associated verb-noun. Certainly, in Welsh dictionaries, the usual form given is the verb-noun, e.g. "rhedeg" for "run", rather than the root, which is "rhed". But it's something best got used to.
"Is mise" (and similar forms) are probably best translated into English as "It's me", not as "I am". Indeed, you've probably come across the 3rd person singular masculine form of that quite a bit, i.e. "Is esan", or, more usually, "'S e". So, just as 'S mi Iain" lit. means "It's me Ian", so, "'S e dotair..." lit. means "It's him, a doctor" - or, more usually, just "It's a doctor. So "'S e dotair a th' annam" means "I'm a doctor", but lit. "It's a doctor that's in me".
Enough for el mo...have fun!
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GunChleoc
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The subject pronouns are:
mi
thu
e/i
sinn
sibh
iad
The emphatic subject pronouns are:
mise
thusa
esan/ise
sinne
sibhse
iadsan
The verb doesn't change according to person (except for the imperative and the conditional forms).
There are two verbs for English be, is and bi. You will have seen the present tense of bi, which is tha in declarative sentences.
The verb changes according to sentence type, so Gaelic verb tables look quite different from e.g. Frensh ones. Example:
Tha mi gu math = I am well
Chan eil mi gu math = I am not well
A bheil mi gu math? = am I well?
Nach eil mi gu math? = am I not well?
... gu bheil mi gu math = ... that I am well
.... nach eil mi gu math = .... that I am not well
You can see two verb froms in these examples: tha is the so-called indepentent form and bheil/eil is the dependent form.
mi
thu
e/i
sinn
sibh
iad
The emphatic subject pronouns are:
mise
thusa
esan/ise
sinne
sibhse
iadsan
The verb doesn't change according to person (except for the imperative and the conditional forms).
There are two verbs for English be, is and bi. You will have seen the present tense of bi, which is tha in declarative sentences.
The verb changes according to sentence type, so Gaelic verb tables look quite different from e.g. Frensh ones. Example:
Tha mi gu math = I am well
Chan eil mi gu math = I am not well
A bheil mi gu math? = am I well?
Nach eil mi gu math? = am I not well?
... gu bheil mi gu math = ... that I am well
.... nach eil mi gu math = .... that I am not well
You can see two verb froms in these examples: tha is the so-called indepentent form and bheil/eil is the dependent form.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam
Na dealbhan agam
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AlasdairBochd
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It is often stated that Gàidhlig does not have infinitives but I have read more than one article on "The Gaelic Infinitive" . I have no technical knowledge of grammar so I can't comment.
Gàidhlig has no verb "to have". You can't tr*** "I have a book" directly. You would either say :
Tha an leabhar agam - The book is at me - The book is in my posession
'S leamsa an leabhar sin - That book is with me. - I own that book
or
Tha an tinneas orm - The illness is on me
In other words by using prepositional pronouns, sometimes called conjugated prepositions.
I made myself some quick reference tables for these points and others. You can download them from www.jdshearer.com/feumail if you wish (and anyone else as well)
Gàidhlig has no verb "to have". You can't tr*** "I have a book" directly. You would either say :
Tha an leabhar agam - The book is at me - The book is in my posession
'S leamsa an leabhar sin - That book is with me. - I own that book
or
Tha an tinneas orm - The illness is on me
In other words by using prepositional pronouns, sometimes called conjugated prepositions.
I made myself some quick reference tables for these points and others. You can download them from www.jdshearer.com/feumail if you wish (and anyone else as well)
Best place for systematic verb-related grammar is TAIC:
http://www.taic.me.uk/taic.html
PS: if you are a beginner, avoid the Colin Mark verb book like the plague. Exceptionally confusing. Actually, if you ever invest in his excellent large dictionary, you'll find the grammar tables (incl. LOTS of verbs) and explanations at the back much better!
http://www.taic.me.uk/taic.html
PS: if you are a beginner, avoid the Colin Mark verb book like the plague. Exceptionally confusing. Actually, if you ever invest in his excellent large dictionary, you'll find the grammar tables (incl. LOTS of verbs) and explanations at the back much better!
Thanks all for your very helpful replies! In particular the pronoun list and the two resource links!
Seonaidh, I hope you can appreciate I don't have a great working knowledge of the mechanics of language and i'm only trying to conceptualise the information in a way that makes sense personally. I am an absolute beginner, so I appreciate that I might be very off track with my approach! Nonetheless, your info was helpful, thankyou!
I'm sure i'll be back soon with more questions when i hit my next hurdle. Thanks again!
Seonaidh, I hope you can appreciate I don't have a great working knowledge of the mechanics of language and i'm only trying to conceptualise the information in a way that makes sense personally. I am an absolute beginner, so I appreciate that I might be very off track with my approach! Nonetheless, your info was helpful, thankyou!
I'm sure i'll be back soon with more questions when i hit my next hurdle. Thanks again!
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Ceid
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Re:
Yeah. LOL. The thing is, Gaelic has an infinitive. It's just a Gaelic infinitive.AlasdairBochd wrote:It is often stated that Gàidhlig does not have infinitives but I have read more than one article on "The Gaelic Infinitive" . I have no technical knowledge of grammar so I can't comment.
English and many of the dominant European languages have their grammar based on Latin grammar. That works well with Romance languages. It works so-so with Germanic languages, including English. But the Latin model really doesn't work well with Celtic languages. So what acts as an infinitive in Gaelic isn't going to correspond as neatly with the Latin concept of the infinitive as in French or English.
Granted, for beginners, this is probably just confusing linguistic gibberish and thus something they shouldn't worry about. But suffice to say, if you're an English speaker learning Gaelic and you're trying to find what in Gaelic acts like an English infinitive, stop looking. Gaelic verbs are a world onto themselves and they make their own rules.
I agree that the TAIC lessons are a good source for learning verbs. I like the Colin Mark dictionary a lot too--not only are the tables in the back a good overview, there's often several examples of usage of the more common words in dictionary part as well. I also use the tables in the back of the Teach Yourself Gaelic dictionary as a quick reference, but those are pretty basic. The TAIC lessons really get into the grammar.