Sabhal Mòr Ostaig

[that_guy_]

Hello all,

I'm going to Sabhal Mòr in August for one of the short summer language courses. I thought I might ask anyone who has been how they found it and whether they have any tips (e.g. costs of eating at Sabhal Mòr, best places to eat out, places to go for a drink on Skye, anywhere I might encounter Gaelic outside of Sabhal Mòr etc.). Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Tapadh leat!

Tòm

[GunChleoc]

Unless you have a car, the only place to eat is the college itself. Make sure you're on time for evening meals or they will be closed when you get there.

There's a chippie at Armadale pier and a little grocery shop in Aird a' Bhasair.

Otherwise I don't know my way around Sleat.

[AlasdairBochd]

I was there for two weeks in 2008. Eating at the college isn't too expensive and live in students got a discount when I was there. The food was good as well (there was a retired French chef there at the time). I found the courses themselves a bit too rapid for my somewhat calcified brain but they were helpful nonetheless. I got as much out of trying to speak as much Gàidhlig as I could at meal times and elsewhere. It was also very encouraging to be amongst so many people speaking it and to see the variety of students from non-traditional backgrounds and from other countries speaking good Gàidhlig. There's a bit of nightlife, mostly centred on the language, and sometimes a trip is organised to the Eilean Iarmainn Hotel about 10 miles up the road. You can also walk to the Ardvasair Hotel. about 2 1/2 miles where the food is good and you can walk it off on the way back. There's a cèilidh once a week in the Talla Mhòr and it's a lot of fun. As GC says, meal times are adhered to and rather brief on the weekends. You can linger afterwards but you need to get there on time.
I've heard some criticisms of the the college but I think they're mostly philosophical. I don't have any.

[that_guy_]

Tapadh leat airson ur freagairtean! Bha mo bheag turas gu an t-Eilean sgitheanach glè mhath! Rinn mi gu leòr agus tha mo Ghàidhlig beagan dh'fheairrdich a-nis. Tapadh leat a-rithist!

[Seonaidh]

Tapadh leat airson ur freagairtean! Bha mo bheag turas gu an t-Eilean sgitheanach glè mhath! Rinn mi gu leòr agus tha mo Ghàidhlig beagan dh'fheairrdich a-nis. Tapadh leat a-rithist!

'S math a rinn thu! Tha na sgrìobh thu a-nuas nas fheàrr na sgrìobhadh sa Bheurla, ged nach eil e foirfe.
Nice one, Cyril! What you wrote above is better than writing in English, though it's no perfect.

"Tapadh leat airson ur..." - this mixes "leat" (with thee) with "ur" (your). Should be more consistent - EITHER "Tapadh leibh airson ur..." OR "Tapadh leat airson do..."

"Bha mo bheag turas" - unusual, rather like saying, in English, "My tour small was". "Beag" usually comes after its noun, so better "Bha mo thuras beag"

"gu an t-eilean": a couple of oddities here. "gu an" is pretty weird in Gaelic; it usually combines into "gun" or "chun an" (OK that's not really "combining"...). You might also have used "don" or "dhan" - broadly similar meaning, but poss. more usual when you're not implying motion (e.g. "into" as opposed to "to"). After "gun", "don" or "dhan", you just have "eilean". After "chun an" it would be "eilein". But the main point is - NO T. "An t-eilean" - fine, but (e.g.) "anns an eilean" - NO T.

"beagan dh'fheairrdich": Well, thought I, what is this "feairrdich"? Maybe it's some verb meaning "to get better", but I could nae find it. And, in ony case, you really need an adjective here. The usual construction is "beagan nas fheàrr", if you mean "a little better".

Cùm a' dol - 's ann math a rinn thu!

[GunChleoc]

After "gun", "don" or "dhan", you just have "eilean". After "chun an" it would be "eilein". But the main point is - NO T. "An t-eilean" - fine, but (e.g.) "anns an eilean" - NO T.

If you want a bit oof grammar: the reason for that is that you have the dative after prepositions, except for a few ones like chun which is followed by the genitive, hence the eilein.

an t-eilean is nominative.

[Seonaidh]

Uill, tha leabhar beag Beurla agam, "Gràmar na Gàidhlig" le Mitch Byrne, agus 's e "prepositional" a chleachdas e airson "dative". 'S dòcha gur ann nas fheàrr na "dative" a tha seo, ged nach toigh leamsa mòran e.
Well, I;ve got a little English book, "Gràmar na Gàidhlig" by Micky Byrne, and he uses "prepositional" for "dative". Maybe this is better than "dative", though I don't like it much.

I s'pose the point is, if you're a native speaker of a language, you just do these things because you always have. Does the native German speaker need to remember to shunt the participle to the end of the phrase? Does the native English speaker need to remember to use periphrastic verbs for continuing actions? Does the native Gaelic speaker need to remember to leave the T out of definite nouns starting with a vowel when they follow a preposition? Does the native Welsh speaker need to remember to put the verb before anything else of note in a normal sentence? Does a native French or Spanish speaker need to remember to put adjectives before their nouns? And to agree them in gender and number? I mean, formal grammar is a great device if all you want to do is to examine how languages work - but it's a tad intrusive if what you really want to do is to use the language. I mean, I could speak English and Welsh pretty well before I had a clue about any grammar in them. I mean, I can tell you roughly what "Nkosi sikelel'i Afrika, malupakanisw' uphondo lwayo, yizwa imithanda zo yethu" etc. means - and I haven't a clue about the grammar. "Kjerringa med stacen" - why "staven" and not, e.g., "stava" or "stavet"? It just is - line of a song I happen to know. Imitation and repetition - very boring, but it's how we learn best.

Duilich - chan eil fios agam air co às a thainig an "rant" sin...

[that_guy_]

Thanks both for the feedback. Regarding this:

1. Good point with the "tapadh leat airson ur", I hadn't thought about that!
2. With the "bha mo bheag tùras". That was a silly mistake, I should have seen that!!
3. Likewise with "gu ant-eilean". I've been using "dhan" already. Another silly mistake I should have seen.
4. With "feairrdich", stòr dàta tells me that this word means "improve". I therefore thought that making it "beagan dh'fheairrdich" would make it past tense (i.e. a little improved). Is this still incorrect?

Many thanks again!

[GunChleoc]

The past tense construction would be:

dh'fheairrdich mo Ghàidhlig beagan

I don't know if you have learned that tense already?

You could also say:

Tha mo chuid Ghàidhlig air fhàs nas fhèarr - cuid Ghàidhlig meaning the part of Gaelic that is yours, since you don't own the whole thing

@Seònaidh: Tha thu ceart, ach tha thu a' bruidhinn air daoine aig a bheil na cànanan seo bho thùs. Tha an t-ionnsachadh gu math eadar-dhealaichte don inbhich agus bha is tha riaghailtean gràmair glè glè fheumail dhomhsa. My Gaelic wouldn't be half as good as it is today if I hadn't been allowed to study the grammar, so I do like to give the information so people have it if they want it

Seo an rant agamsa air a chur seachad

[Gordon Wells]

"Beag air bheag, dh'fhàs mi na b' fheàrr" - Norman Maclean at about 1:42 here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_briCza9I

"Little by little, I got better".

From Guthan nan Eilean - http://guthan.wordpress.com/ - Enterprise section (transcript not yet posted).

[*Alasdair*]

Tha do chuid Ghàidhlig a' fàs nas fheàrr a h-uile latha, Tòm!
Tha mi toilichte gun do chòrd an t-Sabhail riut.

[Níall Beag]

I s'pose the point is, if you're a native speaker of a language, you just do these things because you always have.

And if you're not a native speaker then you haven't always done those things, and you need a framework to work against in order to understand things that are very very different from the things that you have always done.

4. With "feairrdich", stòr dàta tells me that this word means "improve". I therefore thought that making it "beagan dh'fheairrdich" would make it past tense (i.e. a little improved). Is this still incorrect?

You're being misled by English hear (and this, A Sheonaidh, is where grammar awareness really does help).

In English, the word "improved" (as with most -ed words) does several jobs.

One is as a verb in the simple past tense -- "Iimproved the method".

It is used also in the perfect: I have improved the method, I had improved, I would have improved.

When we don't want to say who did it, we can make the perfect into a "passive perfect" with "to be" instead of "to have": the method is improved, the method was improved, the method will be improved.

Now because the passive uses to be, we can use the -ed form as an adjective (in "it was green", green is an adjective, so when we hear "it was improved", improved becomes an adjective), and so we can also say things like: the improved method.

Now, "dh'fhearrdich" is a verb in the simple past. You cannot use it for either the perfect or as an adjective.

In Gaelic, these forms are different, so you have to stop thinking about just the word form and start thinking about what its function is within the sentence.

The usual form for an adjective denoting a past or completed property is to add -te to the verb.

So the adjective "improved" would be feairrdichte.

Unless what you're trying to say is a passive -- I have improved my Gaelic a little -> My Gaelic is a little improved, which is something else entirely in Gaelic, and quite tricky to explain briefly.

[Seonaidh]

Obh, tha cuimhne agam air rudan mar "Yo voluntad ir", rudeigin a chaidh a sgrìobhadh le bana-Shasannach aig an robh leannan Spàinneach (Beurla: "I will go"...). Ge-tà, seo dà cheist: dè an tè as fheàrr, is carson?

1: 3 X 6 = ?

2: 4 X 15 = ?

A rèir riaghailtean àireamhachd, chan eil mòran diofar eatarra. Ach, anns an sgoil, dh'fhàs sinn uile eòlach air meudachadh fhad 10 no 12, ach cha do dh'fhàs sinn eòlach air meudachadh le 15. Ach 's ann an aon a tha na riaghailtean.

Agus mar a dh'ionnsaich sinn ar cuid àireamhachd san sgoil, mar sin a thig ar cuid Gàidhlig. Seadh, 's urrainn dhuinn a dèanamh tro ghràmar is faclair, ach cha tig fileantachd mar seo. 37 X 16 = 592 - ceart, ach bha agam ri smaoineachadh ma dheidhinn.