Fòram na Gàidhlig

O chionn bhliadhnaichean, bha eadar-theangachadh Sheacais agam de Peter Berresford Ellis: MacBeth, High King of Scotland, 1040-57. An latha eile, lorg mi an "dedication" (tabhartas?) a tha sa Ghàidhlig a sgrìobh mi an uair sin agus tha mi a' saoilsinn gun d' fhuair mi a' bhrìgh, ach chan eil mi cinnteach mu dheidhin nam mion-phuingean. Am faod sibh sùil a thoirt air agus ur beachdan innseadh? Tapadh leibh.

Do dheagh charaid / Seumas Mac a' Ghobhainn / Le mòr-mheas as leth na strì gun stad a rinn e, bàs mi-nàdurra na Gàidhlig a bhacadh - a cànain a bha aig aon àm 'na cìànain* choitcheann o cheann gu ceann Alba.
To a good friend /James Smith / With high esteem for the incessant struggle he made, to prevent an unnatural death of Gaelic - the language which was at one time the common language from end to end of Scotland.

'S i labhair Alba
It's her Scotland spoke
'S Gall-bhodacha fèin;
And old Lowlanders (?) themselves
Ar flaith, ar prionnsai,
Our heaven, our prince
'S ar diùcanna gun èis
And our everlasting (gun èis = without end?) dukedom (?)
An tigh-comhairl' an righ,
The coming advice (?) of the king
'Nuair shuidheadh air binn
When to give judgement would sit
a' chùirt.
the court.

Alasdair Mac Mhaighstir Alasdair, 1751
Alasdair MacMaster Alasdair (?), 1751

* I suppose it should be 'na cànain and the extra ì was either the tr*nsl*t**n's typesetter's or mine.

To a good friend /James Smith / With high esteem for the incessant struggle he made, to prevent the (you can only have 1 article in a chain of nouns, and this makes more sense for the tr*nsl*t**n) unnatural death of Gaelic - his language which was at one time the common language from end to end of Scotland.

'S i labhair Alba - Scotland spoke, or this is what was said by Scotland

tigh-comhairle - council house

GunChleoc wrote:to prevent the (you can only have 1 article in a chain of nouns, and this makes more sense for the tr*nsl*****) unnatural death of Gaelic

- actually I've been thinking about what would be better in English, and I'm still not certain, but then the Gaelic phrase would be the same either way, so let's not irritate Seonaidh by following this track

GunChleoc wrote:Gaelic - his language

- hmm, there must be a typo in "a cànain". I guess it should be either an cànan / a' chànain for "the language" or a chànan / a chànain for "his language" (a as in "his", rather than "her", leniting). Looking at it now I'd probably go for a chànain - the others would mean even two typos each...

GunChleoc wrote:'S i labhair Alba - Scotland spoke, or this is what was said by Scotland

- "it's her [=Gaelic] that was spoken by Scotland" seems to me fitting the context more - do you mean there should be a preposition involved to get that meaning, "'s innte labhair Alba"?

GunChleoc wrote:tigh-comhairle - council house

- oh my, mistaking thig for tigh when "house" was the first "dated spelling" in Gaelic I encountered, and one I've seen so often since...

Sa Bheurla a th' againne, tha "council house" a' ciallachadh "a house rented from the local council". Roimhe, bhiodhte ag ràdh "council house" cuideachd airson "a house where councillors meet", agus seo, 's dòcha, nas fhaisge dhan Gàidhlig.

Mar a sheinn Gloria Gaynor, "Now the the's gone, all that's left is a chain of nouns..." Dè bha an ath loidhne - rudeigin mu dheidhinn "Ad màthair bean dràibhear bus na sgoile"?

- "it's her [=Gaelic] that was spoken by Scotland"

Tha thu ceart!

Roimhe, bhiodhte ag ràdh "council house" cuideachd airson "a house where councillors meet", agus seo, 's dòcha, nas fhaisge dhan Gàidhlig.

Seo na bha mi a' ciallachadh

Thrissel wrote:

GunChleoc wrote:to prevent the (you can only have 1 article in a chain of nouns, and this makes more sense for the tr*nsl*****) unnatural death of Gaelic

- actually I've been thinking about what would be better in English, and I'm still not certain, but then the Gaelic phrase would be the same either way, so let's not irritate Seonaidh by following this track

Hmmm.... nominalisations of verbs....

"a" could only occur if it was one of many. While there are many possible ways for Gaelic to die, Gaelic can only die once, so we need the definite article here, the unnatural death of Gaelic.

When you say "a death of" it strikes me as rather weird -- like "a herd of sheep" or "a murder of crows".....

Níall Beag wrote:Hmmm.... nominalisations of verbs....

Thanks for that term (didn't know it), but what do you refer to, "bàs mi-nàdurra na Gàidhlig a bhacadh" or "let's not irritate Seonaidh by following this track"? And what has either to do with the article?

Níall Beag wrote:When you say "a death of" it strikes me as rather weird -- like "a herd of sheep" or "a murder of crows".....

Well I'm not a native speaker but I don't think none could be found here - and that's GoogleBooks, not the whole Web:
http://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22a+death+o ... 032f3decb1
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=%22a%2 ... 650c5b86c8
http://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22a+murder+ ... 032f3decb1

Thrissel wrote:O chionn bhliadhnaichean, bha eadar-theangachadh Sheacais agam de Peter Berresford Ellis: MacBeth, High King of Scotland, 1040-57. An latha eile, lorg mi an "dedication" (tabhartas?) a tha sa Ghàidhlig a sgrìobh mi an uair sin agus tha mi a' saoilsinn gun d' fhuair mi a' bhrìgh, ach chan eil mi cinnteach mu dheidhin nam mion-phuingean. Am faod sibh sùil a thoirt air agus ur beachdan innseadh? Tapadh leibh.

Do dheagh charaid / Seumas Mac a' Ghobhainn / Le mòr-mheas as leth na strì gun stad a rinn e, bàs mi-nàdurra na Gàidhlig a bhacadh - a cànain a bha aig aon àm 'na cìànain* choitcheann o cheann gu ceann Alba.
To a good friend /James Smith / With high esteem for the incessant struggle he made, to prevent an unnatural death of Gaelic - the language which was at one time the common language from end to end of Scotland.

'S i labhair Alba
It's her Scotland spoke
'S Gall-bhodacha fèin;
And old Lowlanders (?) themselves
Ar flaith, ar prionnsai,
Our heaven, our prince
'S ar diùcanna gun èis
And our everlasting (gun èis = without end?) dukedom (?)
An tigh-comhairl' an righ,
The coming advice (?) of the king
'Nuair shuidheadh air binn
When to give judgement would sit
a' chùirt.
the court.

Alasdair Mac Mhaighstir Alasdair, 1751
Alasdair MacMaster Alasdair (?), 1751

* I suppose it should be 'na cànain and the extra ì was either the tr*nsl*****'s typesetter's or mine.

"cànain" can be either "Cànan" (masculine) or "Cànain" (feminine). In academic circles, the latter seems to be more widely used.

Ar flaith, ar prionnsai,
Our heaven, our prince

Our aristocrats, our princes.

'S ar diùcanna gun èis
And our everlasting (gun èis = without end?) dukedom (?)

And our dukes without hindrance (i.e without faltering = fluently)

An tigh-comhairl' an righ,
The coming advice (?) of the king

..in the counsel of the king (the place where the King would hear the advice of his counsellors) [Note: counsellors NOT councillors!]

An Gobaire wrote:Ar flaith, ar prionnsai,
Our heaven, our prince

Our aristocrats, our princes.

I see, plural of flath - I found "flaitheas" in Mark but failed to notice "flath" a wee bit lower...

An Gobaire wrote:'S ar diùcanna gun èis
And our everlasting (gun èis = without end?) dukedom (?)

And our dukes without hindrance (i.e without faltering = fluently)

As to imply "they'd let nothing stop them"? Sounds good...

Thanks for the other notes too!

Thrissel wrote:

An Gobaire wrote:'S ar diùcanna gun èis
And our everlasting (gun èis = without end?) dukedom (?)

And our dukes without hindrance (i.e without faltering = fluently)

As to imply "they'd let nothing stop them"? Sounds good...

Thanks for the other notes too!

I think he meant fluently as in fileanta.

Yeah.

That line means A: that the dukes could speak Gaelic "without impediment" in the court of the King.

There is also another meaning that I am reading into it, though, that this meant of course that they would be without "impediment" in their command of the language too.

Well that makes sense to me too, though I'd never have guessed it myself... although... och ay, I overlooked you saying the an in "an tigh-comhairl'" wasn't the article but "in" - yes, like that it works perfectly.