Fòram na Gàidhlig

Rab Dunbar sa Press & Journal an-diugh :

Mr Dunbar said a common feature in minority language revitalisation was the role of "passionate activists" who often had a limited background in language planning theory and practice.
He added that there was often a "culture clash" between the activists and language specialists.

Gu dearbh

Tha an luchd-eolas/acadamaiche (aig a bheil paigh mhor) connaidh air cul an deasgan a deanamh fiosan naidheachd agus an luchd-cuidichaidh (nan saor thoilich gun cosnadh idir) ag obair gu samhach a measg na dhaoine.

A bhò is miosa 'th' anns a bhuaile
'S is cruaidh ni gèum.

Having a leg in both camps (me, that is), I think that's unfair Each.

True, academics are very bad at communicating the information they have. But at the same time activitists are very bad at listening to anyone but themselves.

Case in point, Rannsachadh na Gàidhlig 4.

From a certain activist, we had the usual rant about Gaelic in the home etc. Fair points as regards too much emphasis on the classroom and lack of emphasis on proper comminication skills outside formal settings and the poor provision for adults. Bad points: the person in question still refuses to accept the validity of science, in spite of Apollo have proven to all but the hardiest conspiracy fans that the Earth is round and that adult language acquistion works differently.

Academia singularly failed to promote the fascinating lectures on research into GME outside the Gaelic world, leading to a rant from a non-Gaelic speaking but interested and supportive member of Strathclyde Uni about the fact they had not bothered to tell anyone else.

Both are cases of "duh". Being a grasroots activits does not come with an inbuilt halo and a desk at uni does not mean you're a fat cat bent on bothing your own glory and fortune (by the way, it's bankers who are rich, not university lecturers..). We need to stop this war between academia and grassroots, starting right inside our own heads and move forward *together*.

'S treise dithis a' dol thar an àtha na fad o chèile...

Bhithinn gur creidsinn nan robh luchd-eolas air fhaicinn riamh air beulaibh buidheann chlann no buidheann choimhearsneachd eile gan cuidichadh.

S fhearr loatha bruidhinn, 's bruidhinn , 's bruidhinn, agus mun de ? an suidheachadh truagh na chanan !
Facalan grinn gun teagamh.

Cha toir a’bhòidhchead goil air a’ phoit...

Well, you don't berate your dentist for not pruning their roses or a teacher for not joining Strictly Come Dancing, do you? If your job is to research language acquistion, the sociolinguistics of language change or whatever, then running a Cròileagan group is not part of that job. It might be if you happen to have kids at the same time but otherwise, it's a really weird expectation to have of scientists or anyone else.

I'd rather people did what they're good at without trying to be everything to everyone. There's nothing as silly as the Royal Bank of Scotland sending employees to weed a park - I want them to run the bank well, sod the weeds.

Sin agaibh e ! Cnag na cuise

Nach eil dleastanas aig luchd eolas feuchainn ri chuir saoilneas gu deuchainn...
Nach bith feum aca dol an sas leis a choimhearsneachd airson sin a deanamh...

Gu mi fhortanach, cha teid, chan eil uidh aca... b'fhearr leotha choimhead aig astar agus a toirt ordugh do dhaoine eile .. agus mar sin ciamar a bhith tuigse aca dhen duilgheadasan dha rireabh aig na choimhearsneachd ag stir airson a chanan a cumail beo.

Agus..

S docha gun robh Fionlaigh bochd buileach craicte - ach cha robh e fada cearr !

If that's the kind of reception people get simply for being academics, perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that they don't do it more...

Although it's changing through things like knowledge transfer initiatives, the idea of tertiary education has never been to disseminate infomation amongst the general population but to teach those who sign up for it. I'm NOT saying that they shouldn't look further, on the contrary it's my belief that they should which led me to a career outside academia, but that's where things historically stand and while change in this aspect it's good, it's hardly cause for verbal abuse.

To use yet another analogy, the people who invented your fillings most likely never wrote an article for the Metro either or sat on a community forum. You still appreciate your fillings though, or do you give them as hard a time as you do academics? Who, incidentally, are not as homogenous as a group as you might think. I'm one for starters. As is Antonella Sorace who is doing just the kind of thing you're suggesting through Bilingualism Matters.

People need to come off their pedestals on BOTH sides of the fence.

Cha robh mi dimeasach idir - 's e puingan reasanta a th'agam.
Tha grunn piungeann cudthromach moralta a tighinn as cuideachd...

Am meud airgead airson gaidhlig a dol dhan oilthighean ann an aite na choimhearsneachd...
De an luach air obair nan soar-thoileach ? No a bheil iad gu bith nan traill dhan luchd-eolas...

Tha torr luchd-eolas a deanamh deuchainn deatamach a-measg na choimhearsnachd- gu h araid airson leigheas, no innealadaireachd, msaa.

Cha'n uaisle duine na cheird...

The biggest waste in the Gaelic world comes not from money spent on research at the third level but money spent on half-baked schemes that are funded with no view to their effectiveness in the long run. MyGaelic.com was not the brainchild of academia.

Perhaps the Gaelic speaking communites in the Western Isles aren't getting as big a "slice" perhaps but is that really because academia saps their funds? I think you have slightly exaggerated views over how many Gaelic academics there are and what percentage of their salaries are funded by Gaelic money. In terms of the Gaelic money they do get, for example for research work, that goes out to tender so anyone can apply. The rest comes out of the University's budget which would otherwise NOT end up being spent on Gaelic anyway.

And I'd be really curious to hear which Gaelic community is doing something in relation to medicine and engineering.

Halo Eich, math gad leughadh a-rithist

@ Akerbleltz,

'MyGaelic.com was not the brainchild of academia.'

'S dòcha nach eil a charaid ach thàinig e bho Bhòrd na Gàidhlig - Rab agus eòlaichean eile nam measg! Ach tha Rab a-mach air 'language specialists' sa P&J nach eil sin am Bòrd? Mur a bheil carson a tha iad a' sgrìobhadh planaichean?
Cha do ghabh iad suim sam bith don coimhearsnachd a bha ann mu thràth nuair a chuir iad Mygaelic.com air bhog! 'S bochd nach do ghabh - leis an fheadhainn a th'ann air loidhne le sgilean sònraichte saoil nach biodh rudeigin ann a-nis fada nas fheàrr agus saor an asgaidh don taxpayer agus 250K ri fhaighinn do rudeigin eile nas feumail. Saoil am biodh na 'language experts' deònach aideachadh gur e mearachd a th'ann. Carson nach robh iad bruidhinn ris a' choimhearsnachd - an robh eagal orra ro choimhearsnachd?

Cha bhith plana sam gu mòran feum gun taic bhon choimhearsnachd ach sa chiad dol a-mach dè an taic a tha aig na 'language specialist' anns na coimhearsnachdan tradaiseanta agus coimhearsnachdan eile? 100%?- 50%? - 25%? Tha fianais ann gu bheil amharas aig moran orra.

@ Art: Duilich Art cha do leugh mi am plana ùr agad, leugh mi grunn eile den leithid ge-tà gu mionaideach mionaideach ach b' ann tric cha robh mi a' dèanamh bun no barr dheth - an dà chuid Gàidhlig no Beurla, 's e cainnt sònraichte a bh' ann - cainnt nach eil ri fhaighinn ann an àite sam bith eile.

I'm standing with Akerbeltz here.

I'll moan and whinge with the best of them about some of the airy-fairy research into attitudes and the like (the original press release for Soillse really got my blood boiling) but the conceptual gap between research and practice isn't of the academics' making.

Finnlay is a great example of the entire language teaching world.

A course builder puts a great deal of effort into building his way of teaching, and is now personally invested in the methodology. The justification for such courses in terms of the academic literature becomes circular. Any research that supports the methodology is welcomed. Any research that says otherwise is dismissed as being biased (establishment propaganda).

No language course in the history of the world is any different. There's a hint of academic insight somewhere, but it's mostly just someone's intuition with science used as a justification. If Finnlay seems any different, any more rigid than anyone else in the industry, it's only because his beligerence is far more honest than the apparent openness of some others. Talk about new research with a teacher, and they may well tell you how they've "been doing that for years" by twisting the words until they appear to justify their way of working. It's been noted that language teaching tends to run in 30 year cycles, because no teacher is ever very influential until his early thirties, and once he's been noticed he'll push his methodology right up until he retires, with practically no changes regardless of the research.

This break isn't just between academia and the real world, it also occurs across departments within academia.

When I started with the Open University, I was studying English Language. The course also functioned as an introduction to modern linguistics and was full of fascinating, relevant stuff that blew away all the old structuralist grammar and really made sense of the language.

I then moved into Modern Languages. The courses presented completely ignored 50 years of research into the real guts of the language and reverted to structuralist approach, and then tried to avoid grammar as much as possible, because structuralist grammar is difficult to learn, because it means nothing. They even glossed metaphors as though they were just words.

But this isn't just about language learning -- in every sphere people are the same and look for justification of their own beliefs rather than new beliefs. It sometimes seems like the only way research affects the outside world is through its effects on the undergraduate degree syllabus, so it's a slow process, because people in "the real world" do their best to "disillusion" recent grads of these "unworkable theoretical" ideas after the faculty have given their utmost to effect change. My first degree was in computers, and there's things that the universities have been advocating for years that are dismissed as "unpractical" in the "real world", but every time a project gets complicated I think about how much easier it would be if we'd just taken the time to do things properly from the word go.

One of the aims of Soillse is to bridge the gap between activist and academic. I am the Soillse Research Fellow at the University of Glasgow, and a big part of my remit is to investigate how we can use crowdsourcing to bring the two together. In other words, how can we support and involve the language community in language planning and sociolinguistic research? The kinds of research we are planning to do involves lots of intervention-and-evaluation, rather than description.

Madainn mhath Mark Fàilte don Fhòram,
Tha ceist bheag agamsa, a bheil Gàidhlig agaibh Mark agus aig a h-uile duine eile a tha an sàs Soillse? Nuair a chunnaic mi na sanasan cha robh Gàidhlig deatamach ach bhiodh cothrom ann ga h-ionnsachadh mur a robh Gàidhlig agaibh:

'Applicants should be able to speak, read and write Gaelic. Applicants who do not currently have all of these skills will be expected to develop competence in Gaelic such that they can conduct and present academic research through the medium of Gaelic. Appropriate language training will be provided.'

"Crowdsourcing"? A bheil facal Gàidhlig air a shon? A-rèir wikipeidia

Crowdsourcing is the act of outsourcing tasks, traditionally performed by an employee or contractor, to an undefined, large group of people or community (a crowd), through an open call. Jeff Howe, one of first authors to employ the term, established that the concept of crowdsourcing depends essentially on the fact that because it is an open call to an undefined group of people, it gathers those who are most fit to perform tasks, complex problems and contribute with the most relevant and fresh ideas to benefits from their inputs.

UIll mar a thuirt mi ro làimh bha cothrom air leth sin a dhèanamh le mygaelic.com - carson nach robh Bòrd na Gàidhlig (Rab nam measg) airson sin a dhèanamh?

Tha e doirbh ag creidsinn gu bheil am pios aig Mgr Dunbar airson piseach a toirt dhan cairdeas eadar an oilthigh agus coimhearsneachd.

Chan eil cail ann ach "positioning statement" (mar a canas iad), rud politigeach, a deasachadh an slighe airson plana ur. Tha mi amharrasach gun e iomart cronail a th'ann. Chan eil e a bruidhinn ri dhaoine sam bith ach am bord agus an Riaghaltas agus an ceann amas aige ri barrachd airgead a cruinneachadh agus a cuir luchd-eolas os cionn gach iomart canan. Mur a bheil airgead ur a tighinn feumaidh e bith tarraing airgead as a buidhneann choimhearsneachd.

Cha cuir iongnadh orm idir gu bheil an luchd-eolas canan a farachdainn comhfhortail a cleachdadh Beurla a cuir air adhart argamaid gun e iadsan a tha comasach Gaidhlig a sabhailadh.

An ioranas !

Bithinn air an lar a gaireachdainn mura robh e cho trom-chùiseach.

Each,
Smaoin air na tuirt Art bho chionn latha no dhà. Feumaidh a h-uile duine obair comhla. Tha am bòrd ag iarraidh gum bi daoine ag éisteachd ri cheile. Chan bhi cail feum ann airson "coup d'etat" ma bhios daoine deònach ri comh-obrachadh.

'S fhada nach robh duine-sam-bi a deanamh sian pragtigach mu-dheidhinn "intergenerational transmission" -- bha Fionnlaigh a' bruidhinn mu a dheidhinn, ceart gu leòr ach he didn't present anything approaching an effective solution -- gus an sgriobh iad http://www.bilingualism-matters.org.uk. And no, she's not a Gael. She's Italian. Is that a problem for you? Do you ignore the advice of one of the leading experts in the field simply because "chan eil i de ar sluaigh?" or something like that?