Fòram na Gàidhlig

(Unless you're a "bliadhna ùr mhath" person!!! )

Bliadhna math ùr dhuibh!

Bhiodh an t-iongnadh mòr an-còmhnaidh orm mu dheidhinn "bliadhna mhath ùr" agus "bliadhna ùr mhath"...

Seo dualchainntean dhut... bliadhna [ùr mhath | mhath ùr] dhuibh!

Bha mi a' smaoineachadh "Bliadhna Mhath Ùr", ach sa Chuimris gheibhear "Blwyddyn Newydd Dda". Mar as àbhaist, rudan mar "cupa math teatha" an àite "cupa teatha math" amsaa. Agus seo rudeigin air ur son a tha vaguely inntinneach - a' Ghàidhlig air "Newcraighall": "Talla na Creige Nuadh". Sin e, "Talla Nuadh" (New Hall) le "na Creige" (of the craig) sa mheadhan. Mar sa mhatamataig, "(Talla na Creige) Nuadh". Mar sin, 's dòcha "(Bliadhna Mhath) Ùr"?

'S dòcha

Seonaidh wrote:Agus seo rudeigin air ur son a tha vaguely inntinneach - a' Ghàidhlig air "Newcraighall": "Talla na Creige Nuadh". Sin e, "Talla Nuadh" (New Hall) le "na Creige" (of the craig) sa mheadhan.

Chan e sin ach sgudal ùr co-dhiù. 'Se Newcraighauch a bh' ann: agus bho "hauch" (="-howe" ann am Beurla na Sasainn), thàinig ha' (pronounced like Gaelic vocable "hò") agus na Sassanaich a' smaointinn gur e "hall" a bh' ann, ged nach robh.

"Craighauch" => Coille na Creige
"Newcraighall" => Bail' Ùr Coille na Creige.

(Edit: see also "Sauchiehall St".)

Glè inntinneach, a Nèill! Bha mi a' leantainn ScotRail. Agus chan ann an sin a-mhàin far a bheil iad a' dèanamh "mhearachdan" leis a' Ghàidhlig air ainmean-àite. Dè do bheachd air "Gyle a Deas"? Agus tha agam ri ràdh nach tuig mi carson atha iad ag ràdh rudan mar "Waverley Dhùn Èideann", "Sràid Ghille Mhòire Phàislig" amsaa seach mar a tha iad sa Bheurla, leis an roinn bhuadhaireach (Waverley, Gilmore Street amsaa) air cùlaibh a' bhaile? Nach e eadar-dhealachadh air sgàth eadar-dhealachadh a th' ann an seo?

Seonaidh wrote:Glè inntinneach, a Nèill! Bha mi a' leantainn ScotRail. Agus chan ann an sin a-mhàin far a bheil iad a' dèanamh "mhearachdan" leis a' Ghàidhlig air ainmean-àite. Dè do bheachd air "Gyle a Deas"? Agus tha agam ri ràdh nach tuig mi carson atha iad ag ràdh rudan mar "Waverley Dhùn Èideann", "Sràid Ghille Mhòire Phàislig" amsaa seach mar a tha iad sa Bheurla, leis an roinn bhuadhaireach (Waverley, Gilmore Street amsaa) air cùlaibh a' bhaile? Nach e eadar-dhealachadh air sgàth eadar-dhealachadh a th' ann an seo?

Bidh ScotRail a' toirt ainmenan bho Ainmean Àite na h-Alba, agus chan eil airgead no "expertise" gu leòr ann, gu mì-fhortanach. Ach abair iongnadh gun do rinn iad mearachd le ha' -- 's e eiseamplair cho chumanta 's a gabhas, agus tha i fiù 's na pàirt den cùrsa "ainm-eòlas" aig SMO. Mearachd bhunasach, gun teagamh.

I kind of agree with you about Edinburgh Waverley etc....

They're looking at the English as a "categoriser noun" construction. In "Stirling station", Stirling is a categoriser. In "Stirling railway station", Stirling and railway are both categorisers. But "Edinburgh" is not a categoriser in "Edinburgh Waverley", because it doesn't make it more specific. It's "Waverley" that's the categoriser here, because there are several stations in Edinburgh (even though most of them no longer have Edinburgh in their name).

So actually, Scotrail are way off, because whoever translated it wasn't thinking about the English is "wrong", inasmuchas it doesn't follow the rule.

Why doesn't it follow the rule?

Presumably because someone worked out that it made for clearer platform announcements to put the "big name" first and the more specific identifier after, when people would be specifically listening for it, having heard "Edinburgh", "Glasgow", "London" or whatever.

This makes the Gaelic names doubly defective: they break the rules of Gaelic and the break the rules of station announcements.

(This sounds like a nice topic for my blog...!)