word order with "math air"

[Cèid]

TY is rather pithy on this. They only give a few simple examples using math air to express "good at" (pg 208) :

Chan eil e math air dràibheabh.

And so forth.

My question is, what's the word order if you have a verb that requires an object? If I wanted to say "he's good at playing football" does ball-coise come before or after cluich?

Tha e math air cluich ball-coise

OR

Tha e math air ball-coise cluich

?

[Stìophan]

I personally use math air + object + infinitive e.g.:

Tha e math air ball-coise a chluich

I'm not sure if there are hard and fast rules here

[Cèid]

Tapadh leat.

I'll look at the stuff I have about using the infinitive. I didn't think of that last night - I was up pretty late studying last night, and I wasn't thinking past what TY gave as examples, which all used the verbal noun form.

[GunChleoc]

The rule of thumb I'm using is that after pronouns it's object first:

Is toil leam ball-coise a chluich
Is urrain dhomh ball-coise a chluich
Thòisich mi air ball-coise a chluich

There are two exceptions:

- a' / ag:

Tha mi a' cluich ball-coise

- and after a bhith:

Thòisich mi air a bhith a' cluich ball-coise

Since a' / ag is usually the first thing you learn, the other word order takes a bit of getting used to.

[Gràisg]

Tha mise ag aontachadh le Stìophan
I agree with Stephen

You could go with an the affirmative here if you like.

'S e deagh chluicheadair ball-coise a th' ann.
He's a good football-player

[Kahlan]

I just got my new dictionary today (am Faclair Gàidhlig-Beurla by Colin Mark), happily it's got a lot of example sentences.

Under math air it has

tha an tuagh sin math air gearradh an fhiodha
that axe is good for cutting [the] wood


Hope this helps

[neoni]

The rule of thumb I'm using is that after pronouns it's object first:

Is toil leam ball-coise a chluich
Is urrain dhomh ball-coise a chluich
Thòisich mi air ball-coise a chluich

There are two exceptions:

- a' / ag:

Tha mi a' cluich ball-coise

- and after a bhith:

Thòisich mi air a bhith a' cluich ball-coise
Since a' / ag is usually the first thing you learn, the other word order takes a bit of getting used to.

i learnt that it is always the verbal noun (the ag/a' bit) after the verb bi (that includes bha/tha/bidh/bhiodh/a bhith and all negative/question forms)

the only exception to this is verbs with movement - "tha mi a' dol a chadal"


things like 'math air' tend to use genitives, as does kahlan's example

[Cèid]

I just got my new dictionary today (am Faclair Gàidhlig-Beurla by Colin Mark), happily it's got a lot of example sentences.

Under math air it has

tha an tuagh sin math air gearradh an fhiodha
that axe is good for cutting [the] wood


Hope this helps

Yes it does. Thank you. I'm going to have to get me one of those Colin Mark dictionaries - how much did you end up paying for yours?

i learnt that it is always the verbal noun (the ag/a' bit) after the verb bi (that includes bha/tha/bidh/bhiodh/a bhith and all negative/question forms)

the only exception to this is verbs with movement - "tha mi a' dol a chadal"


things like 'math air' tend to use genitives, as does kahlan's example

Thank you for this bit a grammar - it helps me quite a bit.

You could go with an the affirmative here if you like.

'S e deagh chluicheadair ball-coise a th' ann.
He's a good football-player

Options are always good. Thanks!

[GunChleoc]

i learnt that it is always the verbal noun (the ag/a' bit) after the verb bi (that includes bha/tha/bidh/bhiodh/a bhith and all negative/question forms)

the only exception to this is verbs with movement - "tha mi a' dol a chadal"

But that's not an exception, it's just the same. Tha mi a' cluich, tha mi a' dol... and when you add a second verbal noun after it, then you get the a + lenition again.

And it's not only after the verb bi either, I can say Thèid mi a' cluich ball-coise, or can't I?

[GunChleoc]

P.S. I just checked Colin Mark for theab and it says theab i an uinneag a bhriseadh, so here's no a'/ag here. So it might have something to do with bi after all

Whom did I manage not to confuse now?

[eideard]

I can say Thèid mi a' cluich ball-coise, or can't I ?

No, you should say "Thèid mi a chluich ball-coise" because thèid is a verb of motion and thus takes the infinitive.

[Cèid]

Whom did I manage not to confuse now?

Nice to see I'm not the only agent of chaos and confusion stalking the Gàidhlig forums across the internet.

No, you should say "Thèid mi a chluich ball-coise" because thèid is a verb of motion and thus takes the infinitive.

Ah ah, I think I'm starting to get this.

@GunChleoc - this is what eideard is talking about (I think, if I'm understanding correctly): The infinitive

[GunChleoc]

Tapadh leibh

[Kahlan]

I'm going to have to get me one of those Colin Mark dictionaries - how much did you end up paying for yours?

I got it for $61.60 from Amazon (& free shipping), a little pricey, but when you consider the hard cover edition is $280, it's not so bad after all

IMO, well worth getting, it's got a nice (80+ page) grammar section as well.

[Cèid]

Well, I couldn't find it any cheaper than that either, and so I went ahead a got a copy from Amazon too. (And I felt compelled to buy a Julia Fowlis CD while I was at it - so much for paying off my credit card this month )

I used to work in an university library, and so I know how expensive reference books like this can be. At least I should get plenty of use out of it! I used to tutor is English and other languages and now I write in my spare time (what little I have), so I love having grammars in any language. I have about a dozen German grammars (yet my German grammar still sucks - go figure. I blame it on reading too much Nietsche at an impressionable age ). I just like to be well prepared.