Fòram na Gàidhlig

Hi there,

I have quite an old book to help me learn Gaelic, and I noticed little differences when I try to read Gaelic online. I found that in my book they write mór, whilst online I can find that they do not longer use it like that. In fact I think they changed every word into using it like: ò ù à ì è
Is that correct or are there still words that use it the "old-fashioned" way? I always found those things (don't even know the names in English) very confusing when I learned French so it would be a relief if in Gaelic it would be more simplified. Hope anyone can help me out!

Tapadh leibh!

Simplifying spelling isn't always helpful. Whether you spell it mór or mòr, it must be pronounced /mo:ɾ/ not /mɔːɾ/ so changing ó to ò is only partly useful to a learner.

Most people in Scotland only use the grave accent but in Nova Scotia, the acute is still in use. The Faclair Beag uses it too for clarity.

In older books, the two accents distinguish between two different sounds.

The difference between è and é is very similar to the distinction in French. The difference between ò and ó is that ò is like the sound in French "sonne" etc and ó is like eau/au.

Modern books tend not to use these, as the Scottish Exam Board unilaterally decided to eliminate the acute accent (´) about 40 years ago. The whole reform was a botch job designed more or less as an invention of spelling mistakes so that they could mark people wrong in exams.

Níall Beag wrote: Modern books tend not to use these, as the Scottish Exam Board unilaterally decided to eliminate the acute accent (´) about 40 years ago. The whole reform was a botch job designed more or less as an invention of spelling mistakes so that they could mark people wrong in exams.

That can't be the real reason, is it?
So what is the smartest thing to do? Stick to the old or new? Especially if I ever want to attend a course?
I lean towards modern, but that doesn't feel right after both your comments.

It's easier to stick to the modern spelling if you're attending a course. You can be aware of the alternative spellings in Am Faclair Beag to help you with the sounds.

In terms of é/è and ó/ò it doesn't really matter. What I mean by that is that the distinction - which was a fairly recent (talking centuries) innovation in Scotland anyway - is technically speaking not essential. It's not essential in the sense that it is fairly easy to determine which word has which. Very few words have /o:/ (ó) and /ɛ:/ (è) and once you've learned which ones do, you know all the rest have /ɔ:/ (ò) and /e:/ (é).

As for the rest, the main idiocy to watch out for in the modern system is that they retained the ancient spelling of t- in irregular verbs even though they're pronounced /d/ i.e. cha tàinig is /xa da:nɪgʲ/ etc. Beyond that, nobody uses GOC to the letter mainly because it's partly contradictory and partly because it has left SO many questions unanswered that everyone makes it up as they go along to some extent.

Chaja wrote:

Níall Beag wrote: Modern books tend not to use these, as the Scottish Exam Board unilaterally decided to eliminate the acute accent (´) about 40 years ago. The whole reform was a botch job designed more or less as an invention of spelling mistakes so that they could mark people wrong in exams.

That can't be the real reason, is it?

People were complaining about pupils' poor spelling, and markers were complaining about difficulties in marking spelling right or wrong. There is a achool of thought that says a spelling can't be wrong if you understand it, and when there is no standard, it's true... so by inventing a standard, they really were just inventing spelling mistakes.

So what is the smartest thing to do? Stick to the old or new? Especially if I ever want to attend a course?
I lean towards modern, but that doesn't feel right after both your comments.

I don't know how smart it was, but I Learned with the old style, in order to help me learn the pronunciation.

Chaja wrote:

Níall Beag wrote: Modern books tend not to use these, as the Scottish Exam Board unilaterally decided to eliminate the acute accent (´) about 40 years ago. The whole reform was a botch job designed more or less as an invention of spelling mistakes so that they could mark people wrong in exams.

That can't be the real reason, is it?

People were complaining about pupils' poor spelling, and markers were complaining about difficulties in marking spelling right or wrong. There is a achool of thought that says a spelling can't be wrong if you understand it, and when there is no standard, it's true... so by inventing a standard, they really were just inventing spelling mistakes.

So what is the smartest thing to do? Stick to the old or new? Especially if I ever want to attend a course?
I lean towards modern, but that doesn't feel right after both your comments.

I don't know how smart it was, but I Learned with the old style, in order to help me learn the pronunciation.

Having an orthography is actually a service to the reader - it makes it easier to recognize words, so you can read a lot faster. It also makes it easier for leaners to look up things in a dictionary. Of course, it makes learning how to write a bit harder for native speakers - that's the price you pay.