Kayak Scotland...in Gàidhlig...

[daibhidhalba]

Feasgar math dhuibh!

I'm trying to work out what 'Kayak Scotland' or 'Canoe Scotland' is in Gàidhlig...using my dictionary, I've come up with 'Curachan Alba' or 'Curach Alba'...not sure if both are right, or if the latter is more appropriate...any help would be appreciated!

Mòran Taing!!

Dàibhidh

[neoni]

i dunno what the english means man. kayak as a verb or what?

[GunChleoc]

A Kayak is a special kind of boat, just like a canoe is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayak

But it's different from a canoe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canoe

So which one of them to tr*nsl*t*?

[neoni]

tha fios agam dè th' annta ach cha do thuig mi an ciall a bh' aige le "kayak/canoe scotland"

[daibhidhalba]

I looked up both words in my Gaelic dictionary and it gave 'curach' for both...but I see Islay Canoe club use 'curachan' in their title...'Buidheann Churachan Ile'...

Kayak is a 'canoe' which is fully enclosed and you paddle with a two-ended paddle...

Canoe is what most people know an an open or Canadian canoe...you use a one-ended paddle...

I've asked my Gaelic Teacher and a few other native speakers I know and none seem to know a word for 'kayak' and say they would use 'curach' for both...

So, if I wanted to say Kayak Scotland or Canoe Scotland (being the name of something), not a verb, would it be acceptable to say 'Curach Alba' or 'Curachan Alba'? ...is 'curachan' a verb? i.e. 'to kayak' as supposed to 'a kayak'?

Please bare with me, I'm only a relatively new learner!

[akerbeltz]

You mean in the same way as those other (ugly) noun phrases are built that you see these days (TravelScotland, CareersScotland, CyclingScotland)?

Well... there's the literal way of doing it by just sticking Alba on and then there's the way that take into account that that combination really doesn't work in Gaelic. Almost invariably, you have to use na h-Alba (of Scotland) in such phrases. Alternatively you can use ann an Alba (in Scotland), which would also work. Just sticking Alba on another noun or verb ends up sounding really stupid in Gaelic.

As far as the kayak goes, given it's a loan from an Inuit language, I don't see the need to force that into tr*nsl*t**n. Chinese aside, I don't think I've come across many languages that actually tr*nsl*t* the term (the chinese call it "leather canoe"). At best I'd say you could get away with kayak Inuiteach (Inuit Coracle).

On balance, how about Kayakachd na h-Alba (Kayaking (of) Scotland) or Kayakachd ann an Alba (Kayaking in Scotland)?

[daibhidhalba]

Very interesting indeed; mòran taing!

I agree, the noun phrases are ugly; but sadly that's the way things seem to be going...

If I were to plump for Canoe (in/of) Scotland instead of Kayak, would Curach na h-Alba or Curach ann an Alba work? I'm a bit confused by Islay's use of 'curachan'...were does this fit in?!

[akerbeltz]

I'm not sure that curach is a convicing word for canoe even, most people I've met talk about canù because a coracle is about as much of a canoe as a water buffalo is a ballet dancer.

Without context it's hard to say. Curachan could either be a plural or a diminuitive. Most dictionaries list curaichean as the plural but it may be an Islay plural.

And you know, just because English is going that way, doesn't mean everyone has to follow suit. Remember your mom asking you if all your friends jumped off a cliff... ?

[daibhidhalba]

...very interesting...you are of course correct that othe languages need not, and indeed should not, follow the English language's lead!

[Níall Beag]

Daibhidh,

You've still not answered neoni's question do you mean "kayak" as a verb or as a noun?

When you look at the English, it's abiguous. VisitScotland, Kayak Scotland, Sail Hebrides, Ski Scotland... these all consciously play on this ambiguity. VisitScotland can be both a noun -- a thing -- "(A) visit (to) Scotland" and a command "(You, over there,) Visit Scotland (now!)", where the word "visit" is a command.

The same thing cannot happen in Gaelic (and more than a few other languages!) because a verb and a noun rarely have the same form.

So, the tr*nsl*t**n for "kayak Scotland" doesn't exist -- it can't exist, because it is impossible to convey the same spectrum of meaning.

To find a suitable alternative, you need to identify first of all what you mean, not simply how you would say it in English.

[daibhidhalba]

So, if I wanted to say Kayak Scotland or Canoe Scotland (being the name of something), not a verb, would it be acceptable to say 'Curach Alba' or 'Curachan Alba'? ...is 'curachan' a verb? i.e. 'to kayak' as supposed to 'a kayak'?

Well, in thinking more about it, I suppose it is ment to refer to 'kayaking in Scotland' (as in we are paddlers kayaking in Scotland), so that's a verb. It's not a command to make people join us in our paddling adventures; more a statement of what we're up to...BUT, you're right about it being somewhat ambiguous in English...

That's thing thing I love about learning languages; it makes you scruitinise you're own main one so much more!

So, to summarise, Kayaking (a verb) (in) Scotland...

..thanks for all your collective help...so far!

[Níall Beag]

OK, but what do you want to use it for? That's also important....

[horogheallaidh]

i would say it is meant as a title, as daibhidhalba said like visitscotland or cyclescotland - so why not kayakscotland? channainsa Curachadh Alba - it might not make much sense but neither does the english version!

ach co dhiu semantics - tomayto tomahto!

daibhidhalba - where do you go kayaking? I have an old battered skua type sea kayak that i use on the west coast - mainly around the coastline - in and out of sea caves etc - am planning on buying a newer one with storage so i can take off to some of the little islands off coast and camp overnight - know of any good bargains on second hand ones?

[Seonaidh]

De mu dheidhinn "caiagadh" airson "kayaking"?

[akerbeltz]

Kayakadh would work. Caiagadh, please don't, the Gaelic spelling system is such a thing of efficient beauty and that one breaks about everything there is to break

It would have to be caidheagadh to comply with Gaelic pronunciation rules.

CaidheagadhAlba I guess then, or KayakadhAlba?