Sùil air a' mhearachd
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 4607
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- Corrections: Please correct my grammar
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Seo na fhuair mi:
Bho chlann
ann am batail
Ged a tha
gu bràth
Bho chlann
ann am batail
Ged a tha
gu bràth
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam
Na dealbhan agam
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
- Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
- Corrections: I'm fine either way
- Location: Sruighlea, Alba
- Contact:
Although a lion is a sleep, a bit of valour will live forever. (?)
Nice.
Edit: too much time speaking to Spanish people -- I wrote "leave" instead of "live".
Nice.
Edit: too much time speaking to Spanish people -- I wrote "leave" instead of "live".
Last edited by Níall Beag on Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:26 am
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- Location: Glaschu
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Aidh, tha thu ceart, gunchleoc ach tha barrachd ann fhathast!
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:26 am
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- Corrections: Please don't analyse my Gaelic
- Location: Glaschu
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Gheibh thu na an àite no sa Ghàidhlig uaireannan, tha sin ceart gu leòr.
Ok, cò dh'fheuchas ris an rud gu lèir ath sgrìobhadh gu ceart?
Ok, cò dh'fheuchas ris an rud gu lèir ath sgrìobhadh gu ceart?
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
- Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
- Corrections: Please correct my grammar
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Bho Chlann Fhriseal
Dhan t-sàr-ghaisgeach dheas threun
ann am batail nan ceudan
cha bu lapach san leum ud thu
ged a tha an leòmhann na chadal
bidh a chuid treuntais beò gu bràth
bàs no beatha
Friseal lenites because of Clann - right? Does it slenderise as well?
I'm not sure about the cha bu lapach thing, since lapach is not a noun. Don't I need to use something like cha b' ann lapach...?
And the last line is pretty much impossible, since there is no tr*nsl*t**n and we don't know what they actually want to say.
Dhan t-sàr-ghaisgeach dheas threun
ann am batail nan ceudan
cha bu lapach san leum ud thu
ged a tha an leòmhann na chadal
bidh a chuid treuntais beò gu bràth
bàs no beatha
Friseal lenites because of Clann - right? Does it slenderise as well?
I'm not sure about the cha bu lapach thing, since lapach is not a noun. Don't I need to use something like cha b' ann lapach...?
And the last line is pretty much impossible, since there is no tr*nsl*t**n and we don't know what they actually want to say.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam
Na dealbhan agam
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:26 am
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Bho Chlann Friseal
Dhan t-sàr-ghaisgeach deas treun
ann am batail nan ceud(an)
cha bu lapach san leum ud thu
ged a tha an leòmhann na chadal
bidh a chuid treuntais beò gu bràth
bàs no beatha
Deagh oidhirp!
Three things:
No lenition of Friseal. If it was an adjective, Frisealach, then yes. I *think* it ought to be Clann Friseil, based on the formation of Clann Dòmhnaill but I must admit that the formation of clan names is something that seems a bit messy from a grammatical POV so I'm not 100%.
No lenition on deas/treun. Gaisgeach is masculine and not slenderised, so it doesn't cause lenition itself. dhan would cause lenition, as it causes jumping lenition, but doesn't because it's blocked with dntl.
In a high register text, using the singular of ceud would be ok (cf Comhairle nan Eilean) but then we'd also expect don rather than dhan.
The slogan is that of the MacLean's... tsk tsk.
Agus càit a bheil e? Anns a' Mhanachainn, san iar-thuath air Inbhir Nis agus bha e ann a chiad turas a chaidh mise ann, 10 bliadhna air ais... Sgrìobh mi thuca aig an àm ach cha d'fhuair mi freagairt.
Oh, almost forgot... bu lapach is fine. It's one of the oddities of the copula that it occurs before noun predicates and possibly in from of adjectives, cf 's math sin, 's mòr am beud.
Dhan t-sàr-ghaisgeach deas treun
ann am batail nan ceud(an)
cha bu lapach san leum ud thu
ged a tha an leòmhann na chadal
bidh a chuid treuntais beò gu bràth
bàs no beatha
Deagh oidhirp!
Three things:
No lenition of Friseal. If it was an adjective, Frisealach, then yes. I *think* it ought to be Clann Friseil, based on the formation of Clann Dòmhnaill but I must admit that the formation of clan names is something that seems a bit messy from a grammatical POV so I'm not 100%.
No lenition on deas/treun. Gaisgeach is masculine and not slenderised, so it doesn't cause lenition itself. dhan would cause lenition, as it causes jumping lenition, but doesn't because it's blocked with dntl.
In a high register text, using the singular of ceud would be ok (cf Comhairle nan Eilean) but then we'd also expect don rather than dhan.
The slogan is that of the MacLean's... tsk tsk.
Agus càit a bheil e? Anns a' Mhanachainn, san iar-thuath air Inbhir Nis agus bha e ann a chiad turas a chaidh mise ann, 10 bliadhna air ais... Sgrìobh mi thuca aig an àm ach cha d'fhuair mi freagairt.
Oh, almost forgot... bu lapach is fine. It's one of the oddities of the copula that it occurs before noun predicates and possibly in from of adjectives, cf 's math sin, 's mòr am beud.
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am
- Language Level: Mion-chùiseach
- Corrections: Please correct my grammar
- Location: Dùthaich mo chridhe
- Contact:
Dhìochuimhnich mi a-rithist eakerbeltz wrote:it's blocked with dntl.
Oileanach chànan chuthachail
Na dealbhan agam
Na dealbhan agam
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:58 pm
- Language Level: Fluent (non-native)
- Corrections: I'm fine either way
- Location: Sruighlea, Alba
- Contact:
Doesn't a double N block dental lenition...? That would make Clann Dòmhnaill irrelevant.akerbeltz wrote:No lenition of Friseal. If it was an adjective, Frisealach, then yes. I *think* it ought to be Clann Friseil, based on the formation of Clann Dòmhnaill but I must admit that the formation of clan names is something that seems a bit messy from a grammatical POV so I'm not 100%.
Are you telling me that lenition blocking doesn't just occur across adjacent words?!?!? My head's now spinning....No lenition on deas/treun. Gaisgeach is masculine and not slenderised, so it doesn't cause lenition itself. dhan would cause lenition, as it causes jumping lenition, but doesn't because it's blocked with dntl.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:26 am
- Language Level: Barail am broinn baraille
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- Location: Glaschu
- Contact:
Yes, Clann Dòmhnaill has blocked lenition but on the whole I find those clan names are not treated uniformly somehow. Never looked at them in a structured way I have to admit though.
And yes, jumping lenition can be blocked down the line, hence air a' chùr mhòr dubh
And yes, jumping lenition can be blocked down the line, hence air a' chùr mhòr dubh
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:26 am
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It's a term I've coined when I realised most people I was teaching had never quite figured that some words cause lenition only once (what I started calling Single Lenition) and others that cause an entire string (usually of nouns and adjectives) to lenite - hence Jumping Lenition.
The fact that few grammars don't decline nouns with one adjective max doesn't help!
Single Lenition examples are:
mo chat mòr dubh
bu mhi mac na banntrach
dà chù mòr dubh
Jumping Lenition involves either a feminine noun, a slenderised masculine noun or the leniting article:
mic mhòra dhubha
cas mhòr dhubh
ris a' chùr mhòr tana gheal
The fact that few grammars don't decline nouns with one adjective max doesn't help!
Single Lenition examples are:
mo chat mòr dubh
bu mhi mac na banntrach
dà chù mòr dubh
Jumping Lenition involves either a feminine noun, a slenderised masculine noun or the leniting article:
mic mhòra dhubha
cas mhòr dhubh
ris a' chùr mhòr tana gheal
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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I like the image of (single and) 'jumping' lenition .
What I've been calling them, more prosaically, is 'one-off' (dà, mo etc) and 'knock-on' (leniting article, feminine marker, slenderisation) lenition.
'Knock-on' for me refers to both lenition and dntl-blocking along the whole string of noun+adjectives, AND to slenderisation.
The whole field of adjective lenition is a minefield, and I have tried to explain it to myself for 'remembering' purposes, as follows.
NB: The logic/explanations are to help me, not based on anything scientific like etymology or phonology!.
I HOPE THE EXAMPLES, IF NOT THE REASONING, ARE CORRECT! If not, please correct it, akerbeltz!
1. There are cases where only one factor leads to lenition, and therefore it is fairly simple. E.g.
Plural: leis na mic mhòra dhorcha - no leniting article, no blocking -n; lenition caused by slender noun ending only.
masc. Dative: leis a' mhac mhòr dorcha - lenition caused by 'leis an' only, counteracted on dorcha by -N > dntl block.
2. In other cases there are two factors to watch out for, leniting article 'an' and leniting slenderisation, which also 'jumps'. E.g.
Masc. Sing. Genitive: airson a' mhic mhòir dhuirche - leniting article 'airson an' (a' =an), + slenderised noun which slenderises and lenites the adjectives; here the dtnl block is neutralised by the slenderisation of 'mic' (i.e. one of the two reasons for lenition is still left).
3. In the Feminine noun we have a further factor: feminine nouns lenite their adjectives, as a fem. marker, in Nom./Acc. (as well as in Dative):
Fem. Nom./Acc. a' chaileag bheag dhorcha - fem. nominative/accusative lenition of adjectives. The 'an' (+fem. nom.) lenites the noun too. Blocking of lenition of D (by 'an') offset by feminine adjective lenition, i.e. one reason still left.
4. Fem. dative also classically slenderises: leis a' chaileig bhig dhuirche. i.e. there are 3 reasons for lenition (leis an, fem. gender marker, slenderisation). D blocking offset by 2 other reasons.
BUT
5. airson na caileige bige duirche - classical fem. genitive does not lenite anything in the string DESPITE slenderisation and feminine gender. (I think of it as fem. genitive elegantly differentiating itself from masc. genitive, which DOES lenite, and which doesn't add the last -e)
6. 'Classically' means 'by the book'. You hear and see less classical constructions, caused by the so-called 'erosion' of the adjective as regards slenderisation, feminine-marker lenition etc. I am ignoring them!
REPEAT WARNING: don't take this as gospel until we hear from Mr A.
What I've been calling them, more prosaically, is 'one-off' (dà, mo etc) and 'knock-on' (leniting article, feminine marker, slenderisation) lenition.
'Knock-on' for me refers to both lenition and dntl-blocking along the whole string of noun+adjectives, AND to slenderisation.
The whole field of adjective lenition is a minefield, and I have tried to explain it to myself for 'remembering' purposes, as follows.
NB: The logic/explanations are to help me, not based on anything scientific like etymology or phonology!.
I HOPE THE EXAMPLES, IF NOT THE REASONING, ARE CORRECT! If not, please correct it, akerbeltz!
1. There are cases where only one factor leads to lenition, and therefore it is fairly simple. E.g.
Plural: leis na mic mhòra dhorcha - no leniting article, no blocking -n; lenition caused by slender noun ending only.
masc. Dative: leis a' mhac mhòr dorcha - lenition caused by 'leis an' only, counteracted on dorcha by -N > dntl block.
2. In other cases there are two factors to watch out for, leniting article 'an' and leniting slenderisation, which also 'jumps'. E.g.
Masc. Sing. Genitive: airson a' mhic mhòir dhuirche - leniting article 'airson an' (a' =an), + slenderised noun which slenderises and lenites the adjectives; here the dtnl block is neutralised by the slenderisation of 'mic' (i.e. one of the two reasons for lenition is still left).
3. In the Feminine noun we have a further factor: feminine nouns lenite their adjectives, as a fem. marker, in Nom./Acc. (as well as in Dative):
Fem. Nom./Acc. a' chaileag bheag dhorcha - fem. nominative/accusative lenition of adjectives. The 'an' (+fem. nom.) lenites the noun too. Blocking of lenition of D (by 'an') offset by feminine adjective lenition, i.e. one reason still left.
4. Fem. dative also classically slenderises: leis a' chaileig bhig dhuirche. i.e. there are 3 reasons for lenition (leis an, fem. gender marker, slenderisation). D blocking offset by 2 other reasons.
BUT
5. airson na caileige bige duirche - classical fem. genitive does not lenite anything in the string DESPITE slenderisation and feminine gender. (I think of it as fem. genitive elegantly differentiating itself from masc. genitive, which DOES lenite, and which doesn't add the last -e)
6. 'Classically' means 'by the book'. You hear and see less classical constructions, caused by the so-called 'erosion' of the adjective as regards slenderisation, feminine-marker lenition etc. I am ignoring them!
REPEAT WARNING: don't take this as gospel until we hear from Mr A.
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- Rianaire
- Posts: 1781
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LOL ok, soisgeul a th' ann a-nis, chan fhaca mise mearachd sam bith ann. Math a rinn thu!
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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