Feminine noun, but not...?

[jasonleitch]

Hi there,

Hopefully this will be quick I suspected a slip up but the audio backs up the text, so I don't know what to think. I am a rank beginner and on the fourth lessons on TAIC and looking to move on, 2 things strike me.

1.) Using plurals, I get it for the most part, Na is the definite article, and a suffix on what appears to be -an is added to the end, lenition appears to be dropped for (f) nouns and the whole caol ri caol thing comes into play for adj. Only plurals haven't really been explained yet not sure if it comes up in a future lesson, such as the extra "i" in balaich or the fact that in tighean, appears to have "ean"added... again might be getting a head of myself that's not even the point of this topic just something I've noticed!

2.) The actual issue, exercise 1: 7.Tha an snàthad gheur salach. Shouldn't the sentence read "Tha an t-snàthad ghear salach." Considering "an t-" for (f) nouns is sl sn sr and s+vowel?

I reach the end of this and a feeling creeps in that it was dropped for colloquial reasons, which is just confusing at this point... but I'll ask just incase.

Remember, rank beginner.


http://taic.me.uk/taic.htm

[Seonaidh]

1. Not all plurals work by adding -[e]an (the [e] is needed to keep kyle with kyle...caol ri caol), just as not all English plurals work by adding -[e]s (the [e] is needed to space out unpronounceable consonant clusters or split s's). Some English plurals are shown by vowel change - and the same is true in Gaelic (e.g. foot - feet, balach - balaich; man - men, duine - daoine). Also, particularly where a word is borrowed from English, there's a tendency to stick in an extra bit, e.g. geam - geamaichen, bus - busaichean: this may be a vague memory of the old English plural (-[e]s) with a Gaelic plural added to it: similar things happen in English dialects and in Welsh (e.g. pease, trad. plural peasen, recorded plural in Berkshire peasens; Welsh for "star" = seren, old plural [and correct!] sêr, English-style re-pluralling sers, Welsh-style re-singling sersen, Welsh-style re-pluralling sersennau). The classic English example of a double plural sticking is "children": the original plural was "childer" (as in German "kinder", meaning "small Easter eggs"...), which was a bit odd in English and was re-pluralled by adden -en (and dropping the first "e").

2. Indeed, snàthad is listed as a feminine noun (always be careful when checking noun gender: some dictionaries use the English convention of "m/f", some the Gaelic of "f/b" - fìreann/boireann), so "the snàthad" should be "an t-snàthad". However, this intrusive "t" is really a leftover of the "t" that was long ago actually part of the direct article, with its only other occurrence being with masculine nouns starting with a vowel (an t-eilean etc.). the letter "n", though (at the end of a word) does tend to cause a lack of lenition (sèimheachadh) in following words starting D, N or T - and sometimes S also. Thus, you could picture "an snàthad" going to "a' shnàthad" according to one rule of lenition - but the S would stop this (or would it?), so I s'pose it's possible there are dialects ann where folk say "an snàthad" rather than "an shnàthad (which I've never come across) or "an t-snàthad" (the literary norm). Over to the Eminence Noire...

[faoileag]

Oh come on, a Sheonaidh, he's only an Eminence Grise.... ... nach e, Ak?


To make things simple, Jason:

an t-snàthad would be the norm.
I think you have a very simple typo in TAIC 4. Rest of sentence OK.


RE plurals:

MOST nouns add -(e)an.

Many others that end in -ach change to -aich. (balach > balaich)
or -an changes to -ain (uan=lamb > uain=lambs)

[GunChleoc]

The point of plurals like balach - balaich, uan - uain actually is that the final consonant changes. The vowel just tags goes a long in words like balaich. The extra i marks the pronunication of the consonant as slender.

Whenever you come across word endings, you will find words that stick an extra a or e in the middle - that's to keep with the broad/slender rule as Seonaidh said.