That depends...

Unread post by **Níall Beag** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:40 pm

Bha mi aig a' Bhothan Oidhche na h-Aoine agus bha mi ag iarraidh a ràdh "that depends on..." ach cha b' urrainn dhomh air sgàths nach eil cail fhios agam dé Gàidhlig air!

How do I express this sort of thing in Gaelic.

Unread post by **faoileag** » Sun May 04, 2008 2:28 pm

B' urrainn dhomh or cha b' urrainn dhomh?

Chanainnsa 'Tha sin an crocadh air...m.e. dè tha thu ag iarraidh' no 'tha sin an crocadh ortsa' -that depends on you.

neoni · Unread post by **neoni** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:07 pm

no,
tha an urra riut fhèin - that's up to you

Mon May 05, 2008 1:46 am

Chanainn sa "tha sin a crochadh air".

amhlaobh · Unread post by **amhlaobh** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:43 am

tha sin an crochadh air - feumar an roimhear "an" a chleachdadh 's chan e "a".

Unread post by **Gràisg** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:06 pm

Nach eil an dà chuid cumanta?

eideard · Unread post by **eideard** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:25 pm

Gràisg wrote:Nach eil an dà chuid cumanta?

'S dòcha, ach 's ann direach "an crochadh air" a tha ceart.

Unread post by **Níall Beag** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:53 pm

eideard wrote:
Gràisg wrote:Nach eil an dà chuid cumanta?
'S dòcha, ach 's ann direach "an crochadh air" a tha ceart.

Ma 's ann cumanta a tha e, cha b' urrainn dha ceàrr a bhith.
Chan eil "mearachd cumanta" anns a' chànanach.

A' cleachdadh Google mar corp:
an crochadh air: 312
a crochadh air/a' crochadh air: 210
ag crochadh air: 1
ach
a/a' crochadh: 628
an crochadh: 605
ag crochadh: 396 -- but there seems to be more than a few hits regarding Irish clocks here....

Like I said, there's no such thing as a common mistake in linguistics. If both forms are in common use, both are correct.

Also worth noting that Coinneach is a native speaker. (Although not necessarily a native speller!!!

)

Personally, I'll be using both forms interchangeably until I hear which the people about me use more.
And then I'll probably use the other one, just because I'm awkward like that.

neoni · Unread post by **neoni** » Mon May 05, 2008 6:55 pm

they say a' crochadh up here, so you're probably best with the other one

smog

Unread post by **Níall Beag** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:12 pm

Mark says the an form is more common, but Dwelly dirties up the mix with the idiomatically quite logical an crochadh ri.

So I'll probably go with an for now.

Mon May 05, 2008 11:26 pm

eideard wrote:'S dòcha, ach 's ann direach "an crochadh air" a tha ceart.

Chan ann, cha chuala mi riamh e. Ach cha chan mi gu bheil e ceàrr, chan eil fhios agamsa air a h-uile dòigh a ghabhas Gàidhlig a chleachdadh.

Níall Beag wrote:Also worth noting that Coinneach is a native speaker. (Although not necessarily a native speller!!! )

Yup my spelling can be very, um, challenging at times.
Interesting piece of detective work with google a Nèill.

Níall Beag wrote:Personally, I'll be using both forms interchangeably until I hear which the people about me use more.
And then I'll probably use the other one, just because I'm awkward like that.

Stìophan · Unread post by **Stìophan** » Thu May 08, 2008 12:03 am

The form I'M familiar with is:

An crochadh air

m.e. Tha sin an crochadh ortsa; That depends on YOU

I would never say a' crochadh as crochadh involves a verbal phrase as opposed to a verbal noun in the same way we use dòchas

m.e. Tha mi an dòchas as opposed to Tha mi a' dòchas

Seonaidh · Unread post by **Seonaidh** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:41 pm

Chan eil me eòlach air an fhacal "crochadh", so I looked it up. 'S e "to hang, suspend" (no an verbnoun de sin) a th' ann. Anns a' Chuimris, bidh "Tha e an crochadh oirbh" "Mae e'n crogi arnoch" - agus bidh sin neònach. Thug na Cuimrich facal às a Laidin airson sin, agus bidh iad ag ràdh "Mae e'n dibynnu arnoch", neo, air guth, 's dòcha "Mae hynny yn dibynnu" ('S e "That depends" a th' ann an seo).

Chan eil fios agam air an difference eadar "an verbnoun" agus "aig verbnoun" (neo "a'/ag verbnoun"). Chan eil mi a' tuigsinn carson "an dòchas", "an toiseach" - mura bheil seo "in hoping", "in starting" ann an àite "at hoping", "at starting" - sin e, "an" airson "ann an".

A bheil definitive fios air duine (Mgr. Sam Bith...)?

Unread post by **Níall Beag** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:04 pm

Mark says categorically that:
The vn is used with an rather than a'

However, Mark does not own the language and what he gives is merely his observation.

All the academics, Colin Mark included, agree that a definitive dictionary cannot be written without a corpus study: examining massive amounts of text and recorded speech to indentify patterns of usage.

There isn't the money for that right now.

Google's a poor substitute, but it does show "an" as the more common of the two, supporting Mark's view, and this is the closest to a definitive source as you'll find.

Unread post by **faoileag** » Fri May 09, 2008 1:23 am

With you on that, a Nèill.

I tend to consult my instinct, any passing Gaelic speakers, any books/articles/recordings I have around, Watson and Mark, Mac an t-Sealgair, and then Google, before making a (currently/fairly/work-in-progress) final decision.

Not mid-sentence, obviously, but when trying to formulate a 'rule' or 'most common usage'.

A corpus would be such a brilliant resource...

That depends...

That depends...

Login • Register