Verbal Horse Commands

[Roan]

Can someone please help me with some commands in Gàidhlig?

I often longe my horse in the arena while someone else is longeing theirs and it gets pretty frustrating when one of us hollars a command and the other horse does it instead. I'd like to train my horse to respond to the commands in Gaidhlig as well as English.

I'm looking for:

whoa or halt
walk
trot
canter

I've looked them up at An Stòr-dàta Briathrachais Gàidhlig, but I'm very unsure of which word is the correct word and apparently "trot" and "canter" appear to be pretty much the same word?

My pronunciation is terrible -- I'm hearing impaired and have trouble with audio tapes. Even the SOL series was difficult for me So I need help with pronunciation as well.

Thanks in Advance,
Eileen

[neoni]

the command form is usually what you'll find in the dictionary under the verb.

whoa/halt = stad!
walk = coisich!

no idea for the others though, as i don't have a clue about horses


i'm terrible with IPA too, but i'd pronounce the two as;
stad; [stɐt]
like the english STAT, short a.

coisich; [kɔʃiç]
kosheech
short o (as in "hot") and short ee, stress on the "ko" though, and the "ch" as in [ç] - kind of like [x] (the CH in loch), but further forward in the mouth



somebody please put my IPA nonsense right if you can

[Roan]

the command form is usually what you'll find in the dictionary under the verb.

whoa/halt = stad!
walk = coisich!

no idea for the others though, as i don't have a clue about horses


i'm terrible with IPA too, but i'd pronounce the two as;
stad; [stɐt]
like the english STAT, short a.

coisich; [kɔʃiç]
kosheech
short o (as in "hot") and short ee, stress on the "ko" though, and the "ch" as in [ç] - kind of like [x] (the CH in loch), but further forward in the mouth



somebody please put my IPA nonsense right if you can

Neoni,

Tapadh leibh!

"Coisich" -- that one I've heard before. It's like "KAW-sheekch", no? But more tongue and not so heavy with the throat-spitting? That's how it sounds to me when I've actually heard it (means I hear things differently than people with full hearing, so I've got to try to get as close as I can).

"Stad" -- is said very quick and forceful, like STOP!, yes? And the "d" is there, but almost like "dt" run together?

Eileen

[Seonaidh]

Coisich - definitely a SHORT o. Otherwise, it could get confused wi "tòisich" (start). Mind, if thou usually tells thy horse to walk from a stopped position, I don't suppose it would matter over much...

My Faclair Crap says "trot" for "trot" and "cealgair" or "mealltair" for "canter" (it also gies "trotan eich"). However, my Faclair Eile says that "cealgair" is "deceiver", "scoundrel" etc - and the same for "mealltair". So, I can only assume that "canter" must mean that in English too - something new to me. In Welsh, "canter" is "rhygyng" (berfenw "rhygyngu") and "trot" is "tuthia" or "trotia" (berfenwau "tuthio" & "trotian"). But that's not much help if thy horse doesn't speak Welsh. I was hoping it might lead to a similar word in Gaelic, but I can't find one.

[Coinneach Cìr]

The Stòr-dàta Briathrachais also lists "sodair" for trot but these terms aren't really stuff I'm familiar with. If I find someone who is I'll keep you advised.

[Roan]

Thanks to both of you.

I guess you can see my confusion now

I'm going to check the Horse and Hounds UK forum and see if there are any Gaelic speakers hiding there.

Eileen

[GunChleoc]

Let us know what you find

[Roan]

Okay, thus far I've gotten a response from an Irish speaker -- which should do, really. She says:

"Níl Gaeilge na h-Alban agam, ach is iad "Sodar" (trot) agus "Gearrshodar" (canter) na focail a úsáidtear as Gailege na h-Éireann."


So it does sound like "sodair" will work for trot and "trotan" or "trotan-eich" for canter. The problem is that "trotan" is too close to "trot", I think, in pronunciation?

I've asked her about "gallop" instead of canter and am waiting for a reply.

How do I pronounce "sodair" properly?

Eileen

[Roan]

Cripes. I have like a zillion Gaidhlig dictionaries in my house and not one has the proper defs of these words!

Grumble.

Eileen

[Roan]

Coisich - definitely a SHORT o. Otherwise, it could get confused wi "tòisich" (start). Mind, if thou usually tells thy horse to walk from a stopped position, I don't suppose it would matter over much...

We tell to walk from a stop, trot or canter. I wouldn't use "tòisich", but rather "stadh", so I should be okay there.

My Faclair Crap says "trot" for "trot" and "cealgair" or "mealltair" for "canter" (it also gies "trotan eich"). However, my Faclair Eile says that "cealgair" is "deceiver", "scoundrel" etc - and the same for "mealltair". So, I can only assume that "canter" must mean that in English too - something new to me. In Welsh, "canter" is "rhygyng" (berfenw "rhygyngu") and "trot" is "tuthia" or "trotia" (berfenwau "tuthio" & "trotian"). But that's not much help if thy horse doesn't speak Welsh. I was hoping it might lead to a similar word in Gaelic, but I can't find one.

The Stòr-dàta has -- which I did not notice before:

canter (movement) trotan masc
canter (movement) trotan-eich masc

So those are the correct ones for canter. Too close to Beurla "trot" though, so I need to use the correct "gallop" one.

Eileen

[neoni]

i have no idea how to pronounce irish gaelic, sorry

understood everything she wrote tho

[Roan]

I understood what she wrote, too -- which is kinda neat.

"Sodair" is the Gaidhlig equivalent for Gaeilge "sodar". So it's the Scots Gaelic "sodair" that I need help pronouncing.

I tried coisich on my horse last night and she responded very well. It's a very barkable word and I love it

Eileen

[Cèid]

Cripes. I have like a zillion Gaidhlig dictionaries in my house and not one has the proper defs of these words!

Grumble.

Eileen

Try Dwelly's, if you have it. That usually has a lot of traditional words used with animals.

The problem is threefold, I think. First, people who compile dictionaries and lexicons usually aren't knowledgeable about the differences between horse gaits, so definitions are likely to not to be as accurate as horse people like (and I know how that is, being a former equestrian myself). Furthermore, the modern Gaelic vocabulary comes by way of several regional dialects, so varying meanings and usages are likely.

Lastly, I think you're tying too hard to make Gaelic replace English verbatim, and that's unfair to Gaelic. Horses are very significant in Gaelic culture, so no doubt they have "proper" words - but they're Gaelic words stemming from a Gaelic culture that extends well before the advent of modern English, and so these words should not be seen as mere substitutes for the "proper" modern English words. They are likely to possess their own nuances, connotations and modes of usage aside from what's listed in any dictionary. If you are unable to get in contact with a Gaelic speaker knowledgeable about Gaelic horse culture, then you 'll simply have to do the best with what you can find and improvise where you need to. But please don't assume it's some shortcoming of Gaelic that it's not more like modern English.

[Seonaidh]

a Gaelic culture that extends well before the advent of modern English

Horses were common to all W. European cultures for at least 2 millennia. Note also that many "English" words for things to do with horses have been either lost or relegated to very limited use, being replaced by largely French-origin words. Particularly as, at one time, the Rich Folk (those who could afford horses for purposes beyong mere plough-dragging etc.) were mainly French-speaking. And the same was true in Scotland (e.g. Robert de Brus etc.). So it's highly likely that many Gaelic equestrian words also stem from French, rather than Gaelic, roots. Hence their similarity, to an extent, with modern English words. It's nothing to do with the relative age of either culture - far more to do with the fact that both were, at one time, ruled by French speakers.

[Roan]

Nod, Seonaidh, and that's why I came there to ask what the proper words are.

I do have Dwelly's -- but, of course, it's the only bloody one I can't find right now

German also has it's own "horse language"

Eileen, going to look for her Dwelly's AGAIN