Grìomhair + smuanairt (ann an ceistean)

Neas Olc · Unread post by **Neas Olc** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:49 am

Ciamar a chanadh tu "what is it for" no "what are you doing it for" (mar eisimpleir)? Am bi e mar "dè airson..." ("dè airson a tha e?"/ "co ris a tha thu a bruidhinn?" etc)? Cha chrèid mi gun do dh'ionnsaich mi mu seo ach às deidh dhomh ur scriobhadh air FNG tha mi smaoineachadh gum bitheadh e beagan mar a thoir mi barail.

(Duilich mar eil mi cho so-thuigseach)

Unread post by **GunChleoc** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:36 am

Carson a tha thu a' dèanamh seo?

what is it for can mean why? and then use can use carson as well.

When you mean it as e.g. what is it for, for the kitchen or the living room? I'm not 100% sure, cò dha a tha e, 's dòcha.

Unread post by **Tearlach61** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:42 am

This is one of those situations where one winds up focusing on the idiom without looking at what the idiom really says.

This is where I think rather than asking how do you say this in that language, I'd imagine what would a native speaker say in that situation. That's where listening and reading as much as possible begins to pay off bacause you bypass the trap of tr*nsl*t*ng idiom.

In addition to what GhunChleoc said, I'd suggest "dè as coireach ..."

deaghnighean · Unread post by **deaghnighean** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:32 am

Chanainse carson ;
Carson a tha e? What is it for
Carson a tha an inneal sin? What is that implement for
Cò airson a tha e? Who is it for
Carson a tha thu ga dhèanamh? Why are you doing it
Carson a tha thu a dèanamh sin? Why are you doing that

neoni · Unread post by **neoni** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:58 am

dè as adhbhar...

Unread post by **akerbeltz** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:45 am

Gaelic also likes to invoke nouns where English uses a different sort of phrase.

For example:
dè an coltas a tha e? what is its likeness (is it like)?
dè an cuideam a th' ann? what is its weight (does it weigh)?
dè an àirde a tha e? what is it's height (how tall is it?

So even though I have no record, I'm fairly certain that dè am feum a th' ann? would be a good way of saying what is it for in the sense of what is its use?

Carson and cò however is also used in this sense as deaghnighean has pointed out:
Carson a tha e? What is it for?
Cò airson? What for? (for what purpose)

Tata

Am Mìcheal Eile

Unread post by **faoileag** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:16 am

A couple more of that nature with useful structures

Dè cho fad 's a tha e? - how long is it?
Dè cho daor 's a tha e? - how expensive is it?
Dè cho tric 's a bhios thu ga dhèanamh? - how often do you do it?

Cò thusa? - who are you?
Cò iad na BPA? - Who/what are the Members of the Scottish Parliament?

Co ris a tha e coltach? - What's he/it like?
Co ris a tha thu ag èisteachd? - What are you listening to?
Co aig a tha e? - Whose is it?
Co às a thainig e? - Where did he/it come from?

(When there is a prepositional pronoun after Cò, e.g. 'ris', it loses its spoken emphasis and therefore its written accent. So I have always assumed anyway, but have not checked GOC...

)

Unread post by **GunChleoc** » Fri May 22, 2009 6:56 am

faoileag wrote:(When there is a prepositional pronoun after Cò, e.g. 'ris', it loses its spoken emphasis and therefore its written accent. So I have always assumed anyway, but have not checked GOC... )

Thanks for the pronunciation hint

Unread post by **Níall Beag** » Fri May 22, 2009 1:11 pm

"Carson" wasn't originally one word, it was có air son: literally "who/which on behalf-of ...?" -- "what for...?", essentially.
In English "What for...?" is almost always interchangeable with "Why...?" in questions.

eg. Why did you say that? <-> What did you say that for?

Unread post by **akerbeltz** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:24 pm

The interrogatives have a crazy history - here's a schematic I did while at un, just for fun...

Neas Olc · Unread post by **Neas Olc** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:55 am

có air son

It's that word order I was asking for (question word followed by preposition). This confirms what I thought was doable. Thanks.

Wed May 27, 2009 9:50 pm

not entirely sure but is it not 'better' gaelic to say

co dha a tha e?

instead of-

co airson a tha e?

de do bharail?

neoni · Unread post by **neoni** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:09 pm

cò airson is just the extended version of carson, it feels very stilted to me

but i'm just a neach-ionnsachaidh. what do i know

Unread post by **faoileag** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:50 am

It always depends on the meaning.

The English 'for' is usually Gaelic 'do' when it means for a specific person, intended for him, as a gift to him etc.

'Airson' has more the idea 'for his/its sake, to help him/it'.

If you are talking about eg a book, an article, a programme, a present, and who it intended for, you would use 'Co dha'. (Who for?)

BUT

Who/what did they fight Culloden for? Who/what did they raise money for?
= for whose sake, so you need 'airson', not 'do'.

Grìomhair + smuanairt (ann an ceistean)

Grìomhair + smuanairt (ann an ceistean)

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