Glasgow Vegetarian Cooking Gaelic Group

[Gràisg]

Sanas naidheachd aig Taci

Glasgow

Vegetarian Cooking Gaelic Group

Taic/CNSA, are delighted to announce that a Glasgow Vegetarian Cooking Gaelic Group registration and information meeting is to be held at the Taic/CNSA office at 374/376 4th Floor, Central Chambers, 93 Hope Street, Glasgow on Wednesday 28th October between 7-9pm.

At this important first meeting we are looking for native, fluent speakers, as well as advanced speakers to come along and make this unique first of its kind in Scotland group, become hugely popular.

As is usual with TIP activity groups, there will be absolutely no reading, writing, grammar or tr*nsl*t**n. What there will be however, is lots of interesting Gaelic conversation, hands on interaction and of course, a great deal of fun. So why not come along and try out something really different and if you do, I can assure you a warm welcome awaits with a group of likeminded people.

In addition if you would like more information prior to the meeting, please contact Colm on ( 07969-212010 or Catherine on ( 0141-226-5222.

One can also email finlay@cnsa.org.uk as well.

[treaclemine]

Is it possible that anyone can report back from this? I would love to learn to cook vegetarian recipes ann an Gàidhlig!

[Seonaidh]

Oh dear.

It is, to say the least, strange that a group advertising for "native, fluent speakers, as well as advanced speakers" (of Gaelic) should promote itself exclusively tro mheadhan na Beurla.

On a lighter note (Ab major...), I loved the starting misprint!

Sanas naidheachd aig Taci

- 'specially as I'm just reading about the fir-taca at the moment...(tacksmen)

Tha mi an dòchas gum bi daoine ann - peacadh nach urrainn dhomhsa a bhith ann.

[akerbeltz]

I would love to learn to cook vegetarian recipes

A, ach on nach bi sgrìobhadh sam bith ann, bidh agad gach rud a chumail 'nad chuimhne, eadar meud an t-salainn is àireamh nan uinneanan.

[treaclemine]

I would love to learn to cook vegetarian recipes

A, ach on nach bi sgrìobhadh sam bith ann, bidh agad gach rud a chumail 'nad chuimhne, eadar meud an t-salainn is àireamh nan uinneanan. :roll:

Tha mi duilich - chan eil mi a' tuigsinn :-(

[treaclemine]

Is mise feòil-sheachnair. Tha mi ag ithe glasraich, measan, pònair, aran agus rìs, agus eile biadh. Chan eil mi ag ithe feòil (chan eil uan, iasg, cearc is eile feòil), bainne, uighean, mil no eile ainmhidh rudeigin.

I am vegetarian. I eat vegetables, fruits, beans, bread and rice, and other food. I do not eat flesh (not lamb, fish, chicken nor other meat), milk, eggs, honey nor anything else animal.

Dè a' Ghàidhlig air, 'vegan'?

[Níall Beag]

Is mise feòil-sheachnair. Tha mi ag ithe glasraich, measan, pònair, aran agus rìs, agus eile biadh. Chan eil mi ag ithe feòil (chan eil uan, iasg, cearc is eile feòil), bainne, uighean, mil no eile ainmhidh rudeigin.

Careful -- "tha mi ag ithe" is I am eating, it is never *I eat. To describe something as habitual, use the future. If it's common for you, if it's normal for you, you'll do it plenty of times in the future. At most you will do it only once in the present, and quite often I will say "I eat meat" when I am not in the process of eating meat.

*eile biadh -- word order! "eile" goes after the word it qualifies.

"Chan eil uan, iasg, cearc is eile feòil"
To me that seems to say "Lamb, fish, chicken and other stuff isn't meat," which I don't believe is what you meant to say.

For one thing, consider the difference in the English sentences below:
"I don't like ham and eggs."
"I don't like ham or eggs."
If you said the first one to me, I wouldn't know whether or not you like eggs, but if you say the second, I know for sure you don't like eggs.

[treaclemine]

Is mise feòil-sheachnair. Tha mi ag ithe glasraich, measan, pònair, aran agus rìs, agus eile biadh. Chan eil mi ag ithe feòil (chan eil uan, iasg, cearc is eile feòil), bainne, uighean, mil no eile ainmhidh rudeigin.

Careful -- "tha mi ag ithe" is I am eating, it is never *I eat. To describe something as habitual, use the future. If it's common for you, if it's normal for you, you'll do it plenty of times in the future. At most you will do it only once in the present, and quite often I will say "I eat meat" when I am not in the process of eating meat.

*eile biadh -- word order! "eile" goes after the word it qualifies.

"Chan eil uan, iasg, cearc is eile feòil"
To me that seems to say "Lamb, fish, chicken and other stuff isn't meat," which I don't believe is what you meant to say.

For one thing, consider the difference in the English sentences below:
"I don't like ham and eggs."
"I don't like ham or eggs."
If you said the first one to me, I wouldn't know whether or not you like eggs, but if you say the second, I know for sure you don't like eggs.

I haven't studied any of this (not the use of 'eile' either), but I thought I had seen an example of the present tense being used in the habitual sense. I haven't got as far as the future tenses in my workbook yet! So sorry for bombing out ...

Is this the right way to cast it into the future tense for the habitual and include examples, then?

Cha bhiomaid mi ag ithe feòil (cha bhiomaid uan, iasg, cearc no feòil eile), bainne, uighean, mil no ainmhidh rudeigin eile.

I do not eat flesh (Not lamb, fish, chicken nor other meat), milk, eggs, honey nor any other animal things.

In English, 'vegetarian' is a positive affirmation based on the Latin word, 'vegetus' = 'wholesome, lively', and is a wider concept that 'not eating meat'. Is there an equivalent word in Gàidhlig, rather than tr*nsl*t*ng 'non-meat-eater' as 'flesh-shunner'?

[GunChleoc]

Cha bhiomaid mi ag ithe feòil (cha bhiomaid uan, iasg, cearc no feòil eile), bainne, uighean, mil no ainmhidh rudeigin eile.

Glè mhath - this is almost correct! However, it's still not what you wanted to say - you picked a bit of grammar here that's still tricky for you.

Cha bhithinn ag ithe feòil - I wouldn't be eating meat
Cha bhiomaid ag ithe feòil - We wouldn't be eating meat
Cha bhiodh tu, e, i, sibh, iad ag ithe feòil - You, he, she etc. wouldn't be eating meat

This is one of the few tenses where you actually have to look at different forms for different personal pronouns.

cha bhiomaid uan = we wouldn't be a lamb

In all the tenses except for the present tense, Gaelic verbs have a form that doesn't need bi, so what you want to say is:

Chan ith mi feòil (chan ith mi uan, iasg, cearc no feòil eile), bainne, uighean, mil no ainmhidhean eile

or:

Chan ith mi feòil (uan, iasg, cearc no feòil eile), bainne, uighean, mil no ainmhidhean eile

They just start you off with tha/bha/bi in the coursebooks because it's an easy starting point for learners.

[Níall Beag]

In English, 'vegetarian' is a positive affirmation based on the Latin word, 'vegetus' = 'wholesome, lively', and is a wider concept that 'not eating meat'. Is there an equivalent word in Gàidhlig, rather than tr*nsl***** 'non-meat-eater' as 'flesh-shunner'?

Erm... I think the English term "vegetarian" is derived from the English term "vegetable". This may have its roots in the Latin "vegetus", but how many English speakers knew what "vegetus" meant before you just said it?

I would suggest that rather than being a "positive affirmation", the word vegetarian is merely a concise description.

There are unhealthy vegetarians too, you know.

[akerbeltz]

Yeah but you wouldn't call gay people "(wo)man-avoiders" either...

I've also come across glasraichear for vegetarian, which is probably a bit more neutral.

[treaclemine]

In English, 'vegetarian' is a positive affirmation based on the Latin word, 'vegetus' = 'wholesome, lively', and is a wider concept that 'not eating meat'. Is there an equivalent word in Gàidhlig, rather than tr*nsl***** 'non-meat-eater' as 'flesh-shunner'?

Erm... I think the English term "vegetarian" is derived from the English term "vegetable". This may have its roots in the Latin "vegetus", but how many English speakers knew what "vegetus" meant before you just said it?

I would suggest that rather than being a "positive affirmation", the word vegetarian is merely a concise description.

There are unhealthy vegetarians too, you know.

Both vegetable and vegetarian derive from vegetus. This is documented from the early years of the first Vegetarian Society about 150 years ago.

It's not correct to think of vegetarians as 'vegetable eaters' because they can choose to eat all parts of all plants (fruit, nuts, seeds, etc.), mushrooms, milk, eggs, honey etc.

I'm actually a vegan vegetarian, ach dè a' Ghàidhlig air 'vegan'?

Of course vegetarians are just like other people when it comes to health - there are junk food vegans too! But a vegetarian is someone who avoids anything where an animal needs to be killed to acquire it - that's the sense in which it is 'lively' and 'a positive affirmation'.

[akerbeltz]

sometimes it's just more sensible to turn to a (partial) loan. Glasraichear just about works but vegan probably has to be veganach/veganaiche or if you want to fully gaelicise it béigeanach/béigeanaiche.

As a rule of thumb in terminology development, if your new (made up) term is much longer or much more complicated than the foreign term, it hasn't got a snowball's.

[Níall Beag]

The word vegetable has been in English since the 15th century or before, used to mean plant matter in general (animal, vegetable, mineral), not specifically fruits and roots. Some vegetables are stalks and leaves too.

It may seem like I'm being picky, but there's an important lesson for any learner of language here:

Etymology and meaning are different things.

Language is democratic, the majority defines meaning.

If you consider etymology to define meaning, then you hit problems like the Old English "mere" (lake -- eg Windermere) and the etymologically French word "mer" (sea), and the German "see", which is a lake.

Meanings change, and you can't impose your own meaning on a common word. To the English speaker, "vegetarian" is and only can be understood in relation to "vegetable" as it is the only point of reference in the language.

Incidentally, "vegetus" doesn't really mean "healthy" or "lively" in Latin. The distinction between vegetable and animal was described as something like "vegetable" and "sensible" (ie having senses). The properties of life referred to in the term (which "lively" is a huge oversimplification for) are specifically those of a plant, which the Romans viewed as of a completely different nature from animal life. This distinction of life with and without senses is where we get the term "persistent vegetative state" from.

A pure etymological analysis of the noun "vegetarian" therefore gives us: "one for whom the life of plants is a key moral tenet".

[akerbeltz]

According to the Oxford English Etymology dictionary vegetable has been in English since the 14th century, from Old French végétable OR late Latin vegetābilis "animating, vivifying". Vegetarian, it states, is an irregular 19th century formation.

Of course, without documentation on who formed the word and what the motivation was, we'll never know of the basis was Frenche "vegetable" or late Latin "vivifying". Given the general ignorance of etymology (comment not aimed at anybody, it's just a fact) I somehow suspect that greens were the motivation, rather than a late Latin root. The most radical aspect of vegetarianism from a human evolutionary point of view after all is not eating meat, not the philosophical nuances.

This does not of course mean that vegetarianism does not have a wider philosophy but it is true of most words that they have a wider meaning beyond the narrow scope of their derivation. Empire just means having an emperor but what each of us connects with the term empire would probably fill a small book!